Mar 17, 17 / Ari 20, 01 23:11 UTC

Re: Decree N3 by The Asgardia Head of Nation  

... becoming a full citizen. Once they do, they will receive an ID Card ...

Would there be intent to adhere to IACO 9303 with this initiative?

Mar 17, 17 / Ari 20, 01 23:30 UTC

ICAO 9303, if you mean the Machine Readable Travel Documents (MRTDs)

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 00:14 UTC

i am absolute;y looking forward to the Asgardia nation moving ever near to a firmer reality. Steps may be small and unsteady at times, but they are steps forward. It is good to have those among us with sceptical views, every new venture needs a dose of scepticism to keep us all thinking and aware. The fact that Asgard is open to sceptics is a good sign that all will be heard. Difficulties may arise if sometimes we are not listened to.

  Last edited by:  Stuart Johnson (Asgardian)  on Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 00:16 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 00:18 UTC

There's a little more than machine readable covered in IACO 9303, as it implicitly suggests conformance to some others - but adherence to this specification would be muchly advised as this should provide for more use than, say, the .pdf certificate.

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 04:06 UTC

A pdf ID card would be about as useful (and legitimate) as the ID cards you can by on the streets of Bangkok for $20.

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 04:13 UTC

$20? I'm sure you can find them cheaper than that - .pdf being a rediculously easy thing to edit results in the easiest chance to distribute unauthorised ID cards in circulation. It'll be about as much use as the .pdf certificate.

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 04:28 UTC

If your really quiet and wait until the wee hours of the'll hear the spam trolls as they quietly post the deals of the day for passports and id cards. Pay close attention, the posts are gone almost as soon as they get here, because the deals are so

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 12:21 UTC

I too am in favour of pdf card.

-Saves on shipping cost

-Saves manufacture labour

-Saves material, completely ecologically friendly.

Those who say pdf card is "less legitimate" than physical card: Do you know how easy it is to forge a physical card? In any instances, the only information relevant to the matter is whatever ID codes we'll receive. Makes no difference if it's on a to-print pdf card or an already-printed physical card. Both can be stolen - in fact, pdf cards might actually have an advantage since the pdf file can be encrypted when not in use.

  Last edited by:  John Skieswanne (Asgardian)  on Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 12:38 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 13:17 UTC


Fine, instead of a pdf, make it a digital key. My point is, plastic cards aren't any more secure than digital tokens. In fact, physical cards can easily get stolen.

Besides, you and me don't even know the exact nature of those "ID cards" yet. The nature (and purpose) of those haven't been explained in the Decree. We already have our citizens ID, so that can't be it.

I think we should give Asgardia some time to explain more before we start jumping to all sorts of conclusions, accusing Asgardia of mishandling informations, and citing regulations in her face, regulations that may very well haven't got anything to do with the whole thing.

  Last edited by:  John Skieswanne (Asgardian)  on Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 13:31 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 17:19 UTC

Do you know how easy it is to forge a physical card?

I may have specific experience in this exact field. Some are certainly easier than others. As previously mentioned, these - or the ones harder to replicate - have "security features" that make it difficult to copy - like UV/IR inks, holograms, high detail and complex patterning in the background that's difficult to replicate with and highlights the quantum dots in home printers etc. and further uses the light frequencies in common scanners to add/obscure details as the document is attempted to scan. And muppets priting .pdf's are unlikely to have UV inks, Infra-red inks, watermarked papers, emossing machines, rolls of holographic foils or anything that anyone sensible would use to prevent ease of fradulent issues. And if anyone ever samples the printed product - scanning or photograph - the quantum dots will highlight were, when, with what model printer and operating system and in some cases user details of who was operating the printer.

The ID card, done right, is encrypted. I specifically selected IACO 9303 for several reasons one is the fact it's a collection of techniques and featuers decided upon by an UN NGO we'll end up with a document other nations can eventually recognise as valid, and it'd already be complient with existing passport infrastructure when other nations recognise us as valid and this becomes viable. Another is we can embed extra data into extra "pages" of memory including things like public key, private key and then also be able to use it in authentication as well as identification. I further think we should expand the protocol and include the presence of a duress password to gain access to a sandboxed and sterile environment whilst alerting to the state of duress in an order to preserve individual freedom and in the cases of lesser civilised regimes retention of limbs.

You can steal a .pdf, or the printed medium. You can also steal the card. Unfortunately, unless by random chance you're not going to align any detials it's easily able to see on the card(and .pdf, but the .pdf is a lot easier to edit so you can match details) so on a casual visual inspection you're likely to fail with the card. Importantly, you're certainly going to fail all the digital information in the card. You're not going to know the passphrase to unlock the private key and authentication most improbable.

That could be why this system is used in any sane DoD.

Mar 18, 17 / Ari 21, 01 23:57 UTC

These are great news. However, I am concerned about the fact that we are not voting for our leadership, as mentioned previously. If we are supposed to be voting for leadership, shouldn't we be preparing and learning about the people we will be voting for? What if we want to run? Is there an equal opportunity for anybody to become a representative for the lay person in the leadership body?

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 00:34 UTC

No laws, no election, no parliament, no council, nothing. It's really that easy. A constitution first, then laws, then a election of a council of ministers.

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 01:59 UTC

^ Except, we do have a predetermined government of ministries with ministers who have been appointed already. Do you know who they are? I don't. And I sure would like to know.

They are supposed to hold their positions until June when we are supposed to vote for the officials who will hold these positions going forward according to the literature on this website. Trouble is, Decree N3 does not mention any sort of election in regards to these positions. So, what is all this trite about?

"ASGARDIA is governed by a Council of 12 Ministers. Acting Ministers are appointed by the Founding Father for a limited period until the first elections, which are planned for June 2017."

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 02:12 UTC

If you'd like to know who they are, most of them already hold positions at AIRC. You might already recognise some of the names on and looking into the wealth of information available for the people listed in that tree, it's pretty simple to start joining some dots, and by logical elimination deduce the rest.

They also might have the lower serials in the database.

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 02:31 UTC

^ Do we have access to the database of all the serials for everyone who signed up? If not, we can't really confirm them this way. If we do, how do we access it? Do you know?

Also, although I suspect that some of the people involved in Room and AIRC might also be involved in Asgardia politics, I am a little worried that we are completely in the dark as to any official source clarifying this information. I supposed it is a matter of security of some sort since the national recognition we seek might be a very lengthy and controversial process.

I don't know. I would like more transparency. That's all.

  Last edited by:  Yoevelyn Rodriguez (Asgardian, Comm Assistant)  on Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 02:33 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time