Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 06:05 UTC

Re: Decree N3 by The Asgardia Head of Nation  

Publishing a chart with people involved is actually a bad idea and generates threat to those who are responsible. I hope you have that in mind.

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 13:20 UTC

@Jason Rainbow:

Thanks for the links!

However, are the names of my team (the Constitution Compilation volunteers team) included? We've put quite some efforts into the Constitution document; it'd be great for the guys in the team to have some sort of official recognition.


  Last edited by:  John Skieswanne (Asgardian)  on Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 13:42 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 17:14 UTC

I have two questions:

  1. Will there be potentially a backup voting server in case technical problems may arise during the event of Asgard the 1st?

  2. If one voter chose not to adopt on the Declaration of Unity/ the Constitution and remained on the secondary level of verification, will there possibly be a way in case a voter changes his/her mind and proceeds to adopt the Declaration of Unity/ the Constitution of Asgardia as well as acquiring the third level of verification?

Mar 19, 17 / Ari 22, 01 20:54 UTC

I only hope that the process is transparent and that the views of the Asgardians are taken into account before its approval ...

Mar 20, 17 / Ari 23, 01 09:56 UTC

The date of 18th June 2017 a momentous day and marked in my calendar as my memory is terrible (and so is my spelling as I have had to edit up to this point about 5 times). See you then Voters.

Mar 20, 17 / Ari 23, 01 16:32 UTC

I'm not that happy about all those things are going on behind the scenes as, like many other asgardians, I'm asking for some transparency since a while.
At the moment, the only clear things are:

  1. we got a new calendar, made behind the scenes too, reading the forum I can see it have been contested in many parts. But, as it was made by decree, it's our official calendar.
  2. we'll have to vote for Unity -> Constitution -> National flag -> Insignia -> National Anthem

I've very few to say about the Calendar, I'm not a scientist so my sentences have no scientific bases, can say my very first feeling was "I like it" as it have all months made equal, 28 days each, which seems like a "natural period". After that I realized it was a natural Earth/Moon period and it sounded strange, for a space nation (the same as using Earth months' names), but ok, it's a Calendar after all.

About National flag, insignia and anthem, I liked very much the process of being created by asgardians, for asgardians, publicly presented to being voted/chosen, etc. as it involves us, the people, and not something we can't see and which operates behind the scenes.

About the Constitution, I know many asgardians made it, just hope the preview will be made available in all of our languages, if possible, so to have the most of us being able to read it. I know it's an heavy burden and I don't like to stress the translators, but take in count that will be our only Founding Document so, maybe, it worths the effort of being extremely clear on it, after all, as we'll have to vote and our vote will be mandatory for "level 3" citizenship.

I'm definitely not against an explicit "bail in", voting yes to Unity and Constitution, if we took part into writing and/or discussing it. My only uncertainity comes from the fact, as far as I can see, at one side there is a forum, with some "registered users" calling themselves (ourselves) "asgardians", and to the other side there is an organization, with not exactly known members (some (all?) of them mapping to Room/AIRC staffs but not exactly identified) which does things (behind the scenes), and those things we'll receive by decree.
Now... I can understand there should be some kind of engine, which keeps the things going on, but the feeling I'm having about all this is to be some kind of spectator which only value is to place a "yes" into a voting poll or, chosing "no", being even more spectator of the whole thing.
As I wrote in the past, it's hard to dig the whole forum to read about all the things 're going on, as it's hard to recognize which posts are "simply opinions" from which ones are from the "builders" of the things we'll have to vote, as there is no explicit structures' document (here in the forum I can see "global admins", "moderators" etc. but I don't know where in the staff's structure they're positioned and can't see other names too).
Last but not least, it sounds strange, at least to me, one must be into something to know how that thing is evolving (or have to dig, without even a "search" feature, in the forum).

Hope mines won't be read as complains as I'm only trying to express my feelings, while trying to be part of the community.

Mar 20, 17 / Ari 23, 01 16:42 UTC

You should be also concerned about "level three citizenship"

There should be only two states of cizitenship - citizen and non-citizen. The requirement to artificially generate "classes" of citizenship is most interesting.

It's not particularly difficult to scrape the forum for data - but one does have to question why the search function was consciously and intentionally removed, then advertised as an incomming feature that's taken several months to restore to default.

Within the regards to "global admins" and "moderators" and where they'd sit in the structure, I'd not bother. They don't. The only function is the babysitting that occurs on here. They may have some heirachy within themselves, but that is meaningless within itself. The only data they get near is that which is released to them.

  Updated  on Mar 20, 17 / Ari 23, 01 16:43 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Mar 20, 17 / Ari 23, 01 18:07 UTC

I'm supposing the "near to citizens" (or L2C) will be the ones which didn't confirm their data (maybe we can call them even L1C), or didn't accepted the "rules" (L2C) we're going to approve/vote, but they'll can do in the future, if they'll wish to, or just be "cleaned up" after some time, like all are doing with "inactive accounts" after some time of being unused.

I'm not that concerned about L2/L3 citizens, as I automatically (maybe wrongly?) translated as "L3 will be citizens while L2 will be spectators with word's rights (AKA not-citizens)".
This to mean that, who didn't sign an "I'm accepting the (people's defined) rules" paper (even virtual one) shouldn't have the right to make things which can become rules in the future.

@John A Covert
I think I can bear, for now, to some grade of oligarchy, as soon as the "behind the scenes things" goes away after we voted for the Union, Constitution, and Parliament (about the Parliament, which usually means people's representatives, I never found a notice about it in the forum, before of Decree #2, I only found evidences of Ministries which seems not the same thing).
About the forum's admins, they have all my respect, as they're voluntarily doing something I'm not doing, but I would like to see their names (or nicks) into the Structure's Document anyway.

Mar 20, 17 / Ari 23, 01 18:35 UTC

Definitely, the transparency could use "some work", and the forum staff provide a much required service that represents a largely thankless task where people largely focus on the negatives, but in terms of the "power structure" they are not particularly elevated above the average citizen, beyond the ability to play babysitter. It's not as if they are part of, or involved with "government" - they are just endorsed by.

They should possibly feature their own "this is us" page, being a "seperate entity" but presence on such should IMHO be to their own choosing. I am by no means a fan of "secret police" but there's no real requirement to know who the moderation/admin staff are, really, up until the point they are actually responding as a moderator/admin. It's just another list of targets, and considering the usage habits many display this isn't wise(or represent any difficulty making this list independantly from the data they leak - but being able to boot your door through with one kick isn't a reason not to lock it when you leave the house). Although compromise at this level shouldn't be much of a setback, overall, it can result in messing up the service a little with potential to cause restore from backup to restore normality(and losing all since the last backup, something else the policies on have been specifically requested and ignored likely meaning there is no backup strategy in place, or if there is it's too embaressing to publicly reveal).

The "job" the admin/moderator staff do of being the "face of Asgardia" is likely as good as they are able, but it is not a task they have been equipped to suitably handle. Much of the information they would require to be able to respond appropriately is kept from them. Like us, they've mostly been having to do digging themselves. This was partially the intent of submitting a feature request for a wiki - somewhere to collate and organise information sensibly.

Whilst I'm tapping into here again - What about the ID card, and intent to conform to IACO 9303? This should be reasonably simple to find and deliver answers to, it should be a binary option.

Mar 21, 17 / Ari 24, 01 06:38 UTC

I apologize if someone already asked, but the decree says that "verified asgardians have the right to vote". Does that mean that each one of the 170k+ asgardians which have a certificate will be able to vote? Or only the first 100k?

Mar 21, 17 / Ari 24, 01 10:43 UTC

illuminati symbol in your web? what is this ?can you explain ?i dont want to be any part of illuminati

  Last edited by:  TANVIR HASAN (Asgardian)  on Mar 21, 17 / Ari 24, 01 10:44 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: illuminati word mistake

Mar 21, 17 / Ari 24, 01 11:45 UTC

Apparently there is no link, I say apparently as all official statements deny - but if you was a secret organisation you would try to hide it, surely... Advertising it by way of various symbols isn't entirely clever.

Look at it this way, you've heard of the CIA, Mi6, Moussad, FSB etc I assume. What's the Chinese one called? Makes it a lot harder to talk about.

Mar 22, 17 / Ari 25, 01 07:41 UTC

Jason Rainbow:

This is every Asgardian who has completed the verification process and got there Certificate.

Thanks for the clarification.

Mar 22, 17 / Ari 25, 01 21:56 UTC

Ok, all things in time and an orderly sequence. Before we can elect officials we must have a Nation. One of the things a Nation must have is a Constitution. Careful examination to this point indicates an orderly procedure for establishing our Nation. A careful examination of Decree N3 is a date to vote on the basic building blocks for our Nation. It is my interpretation or feeling if you will indulge me, that a draft of the Constitution will be available for our examination and comment well before the election. As for the rest of it, the people that have been working so hard on our behalf to bring our hope and dream to fruition deserve our thanks and gratitude. These people are unpaid volunteers that hold the same aspirations we do, and are acting in our behalf. Depending on their present situation and country of origin it may be to their benefit to maintain a level of anonymity for their own well being. Healthy scepticism is essential to a free and open society, as is an open forum to voice questions. Constructive criticism is essential to the democratic process. It is also important to remember that we come from every corner of this world. I personally use google translate, this seems to work well for me, but it must be kept in mind that different languages have different styles of grammar so a bit of understanding is in order. I look forward to our first election. One step at a time will eventually complete the journey. I personally put my faith and hope in our Founding Father. I truly believe he has shared his dream with us and has no agenda but to see our new Nation come to fruition and prosper.

  Last edited by:  David Houlton (Asgardian)  on Mar 22, 17 / Ari 25, 01 22:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times
Reason: Grammer, spelling

Mar 24, 17 / Ari 27, 01 00:46 UTC

@Jason Rainbow Thank you. An organizational chart would definitely help in order for us to know who these people are. As an Asgardian, I need to know who my people are.