Aqu 14, 01 / Jan 14, 17 01:01 UTC

Re: Can we survive seperation from Earth?  

Also. Lets all be reasonable but also optimistic in this field. I am sure humans can quickly adapt like we always do on earth.

Pis 15, 01 / Feb 12, 17 07:08 UTC

Sorry to be rude but we are not symbiotic with our planet.

This is the same topic NASA is trying to research.

Pis 16, 01 / Feb 13, 17 21:07 UTC

Not trying - have been. And for some considerable time.

The tl:dr on the matter is yes it's feasible, you just need adequete support infrastructure and resources.

Most independant biostasis experiments unfortunately have failed. In less than three years. The required balance for long term symbiosis proving slightly harder than first anticipated. It's certainly possible. Things like gardens/parks/forrests and such will certainly help, but mechanical/chemical means of recycling are likely to be primary and the organics simply reducing stresses upon.

Concerning "magnetic shoes" that only stops you "floating aimlessly" - the muscle/bone atrophy still occurs as even moving you is less effort, you might have contact and connection with floor but your body isn't pressing on it. As it's still microgravity, fluids still end up in the wrong places inside your body, where the physics of fluids themselves adjust in microgravity. etc.

The "simplest" method for artificial gravity is simply rotation - centrafugal force. You fill a bucket with water, then spin it fast enough you can get it parellel to the floor and the centrafugal force will keep the water pressed to the base and prevent spillages. A large hollow toroid - a giant donut - can give plenty of internal surface area. Of the correct scale it could be feasible to have several "floors" of modual buildings inside. Mulitples of this can be stacked linear on a "spire".

Radiation shielding can easily be applied - if no more sensible way is presented then simply by increasing the density of the radiation shielding. I'd feel comfortable with about five meters of NiFe skinned in 7CM of titanium. If mining asteroids, actually coming up with that sort of mass isn't going to be a problem that can't be solved in a decade or so.

Power isn't that much of an issue. What really is an issue is thermal dissipation. Space lacks matter, this knocks out convection and conduction leaving you only with radiation - the least efficient form - as a dissipation method. Most commonly manifested as infra red bleeding from radiators exposed to hard vacuum. Consider our population as it stands, now. 167154 as I write this post. To ignore any devices they might be operating with thermal output, and heat generated in the effort of actually keeping them alive, comfortable etc and to focus just on the temperature generated by the organics themselves, and to assume a value of 70%+ efficient insulation then that's about 16.8 gigawatt needed to be disipated. More if anyone actually does anything, and breaks a sweat. Via an array of radiator panels this is going to require areas measurable in square miles to be deployed, and hundreds of. The equipment they run, and the equipment keeping them alive is likely to be a much lower number, in terms of thermal dissipations. In terms of energy production, Nuclear can tick all the right boxes - and it doesn't need to be close enough to be a problem if it experiences "issues" the power can be beamed about by microwaves, infra-red, ion beams etc. Large solar farms can collect - it's amazing how much light leaves the sun then touches nothing - just 10% of that for an hour is more energy than the species is likely to use in the next few thousand years. I quite like the idea of building a dyson-harrop loop in Sol's magnetosphere, myself.

Long term food can be produced in a series of orbital farms. This should ideally be rolled out before mass habitaitonal facilities begin construction in order to establish supply chains before there is a requirement of it - ensuring problems cannot happen. The excess produce in the meantime can be sold to Earth.

  Updated  on Pis 16, 01 / Feb 13, 17 21:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Pis 25, 01 / Feb 22, 17 05:22 UTC

I understand that a nation in space is like other nation or country in the earth. So the feedback to the earth is necessary At first time the communication can be essential. Later, will see.

Ari 03, 01 / Feb 28, 17 11:44 UTC

There are more probabilities to survive as there is an emptiness available in our DNA. The human being will mute and on and on. That's our destination if we want to survive.

Ari 03, 01 / Feb 28, 17 13:11 UTC

Radiation shielding can easily be applied - if no more sensible way is presented then simply by increasing the density of the radiation shielding. I'd feel comfortable with about five meters of NiFe skinned in 7CM of titanium. If mining asteroids, actually coming up with that sort of mass isn't going to be a problem that can't be solved in a decade or so.

I have been thinking about radiation while in space. Please let me know the feasibility of my idea:

One of the best, and cheapest, radiation shields is water. If the exterior of the torus (donut) is filled with water, it would provide a great deal of radiation shielding on its own. The radiation would also help to purify the water against contaminants as well as provide additional weight to keep the station spinning due to inertia. In the event of a controlled slow spin-down (for whatever reason), the water could be pumped to the interior of the station/torus/donut and the lack of weight on the outside of the station would mean less fuel would be required to cause the spin down.

Ari 03, 01 / Feb 28, 17 23:02 UTC

Basically with raditaion sheilding density is what you're after, and water is quite dense. Hydrogen is also quite good at fending off GBR. The radiation isn't particularly likely to purify the water, instead it's more likely to turn into deutrium over time. Being likely frozen (they use ammonia in the ISS for coolant as it doesn't freeze as easily) seperating this deutrium should be fun.

What about substitution of gravity for centrafugal force hasn't been "fully explored"? 1G is 1G...

  Updated  on Ari 03, 01 / Feb 28, 17 23:03 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Ari 04, 01 / Mar 1, 17 13:25 UTC

Basically with raditaion sheilding density is what you're after, and water is quite dense. Hydrogen is also quite good at fending off GBR. The radiation isn't particularly likely to purify the water, instead it's more likely to turn into deutrium over time. Being likely frozen (they use ammonia in the ISS for coolant as it doesn't freeze as easily) seperating this deutrium should be fun.

Isn't deutrium and tritium what was theoretically supposed to be used in fusion reactors as a fuel source?

So, in addition to protecting the crew from radiation, it would also, slowly, generate a fusion fuel source?

Ari 04, 01 / Mar 1, 17 13:29 UTC

Concerning "artifical gravity" provided by centrafugal force, 1G is possible to be hit, at any duimpherence - you just need to compensate with speed. This ofc only provides 1G at a given distance for a given speed - thinking three dimensionally the internal structure was to register 1G at the "floor" then levels above should steadily reduce in effect - possibly not noticable on a floor-by floor basis, but twenty meters "up" might be noticable. Same with "down", but the other way - each floor in that direction would increase in G. Something definitely worthy of consideration once the available space is insufficient and concepts like "oinioning" are considered.

For scaling of the torus, I was initially thinking about 1km » 2½km diameter of the "middle hole" in the torus, with a circle obtained from a cross section of the torus being about 50 meters diamater. Should give enough usable space for a little while, and provide for 1G at just about 9m/s rotation. Olympic athletes can clear the 100m dash in about this time, this speed is easily achievable. Building to this scale doesn't represent a particular issue - especially in microgravity - the attribution of the megatonnes of material required does. IMHO this is realistically sourcable from asteroids, approached correctly this could both significantly accelerate the aquesition of these resources into a suitable location and bypass associated costs with lifting to orbit in the process. To ignore the number of trips to lift this mass would take literally thousands of years, the cost of lifting the mass for residential facilites will vastly exceed the cost of lifting equipments to begin resource extraction and production.

Concerning the "coriolis forces" - that's only really applicable one you start moving, then stop. Or stop, then start. Once entropy catches up with intertia the effect vanishes.

  Updated  on Ari 04, 01 / Mar 1, 17 13:30 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Ari 19, 01 / Mar 16, 17 22:05 UTC

Yes, yes we can physically at least, but we our more than our physical selves. We also have to consider the psychological effects living in space will have on humans. Considering the first citizens to live in Asgardia would have been born on good ole terra firma and they would experience changes that could lead to ill mental effects. I mean, those folks would have to deal with a less efficient immune system, a loss of sense of direction, loss of sense of time, the fear of all the threats in space that could hurt them, and the possibility of ET swiping them from their beds at night

Ari 20, 01 / Mar 17, 17 13:38 UTC

The "fear of ET swiping them from thier beds" can't honestly be a "seperation from Earth" concern ... If they can cross the vast distances of the universe to get this locality, the few hundred extra kilometers to a terrestial bed shouldn't pose much of a challenge.

A sense of direction is maintained in space as it is on Earth - by "landmarks" - Celestial bodies and constellations. You'll get used to how these look in different places. The sense of time isn't something that's attached to the planets spin or the light cycle - if you fail to leave your house you're not in an isolated timezone, a day still takes a day. Running on an assumption of Toroid farms in near Earth orbit the constant sunlight was considered by the application of a "shade panel" on runners, pacing the rotation of the installation in order to provide an 8-hr shadow rolling around, taking about 24-hrs to loop. It should be possible to do something similar on residential installations and or adjust ambient light levels in various locations. Genuinely, I'd expect most to have a clock on their HUD so the passage of time should be easy to note.

Leo 01, 01 / Jun 18, 17 06:09 UTC

I use this as the answer:Earth is the cradle of mankind, but mankind can not always be bound in the cradle. It first carefully explores the edges of the atmosphere and then extends control and intervention to the entire solar system.-----Zyolkovsky

Leo 01, 01 / Jun 18, 17 20:59 UTC

We need to  use only cold, hard facts, and not the "we must" or "we Will"

I propose to send a space ship from earth orbit to mars and back. This probe will contain:

a) human living cells

b) fungus

c) ants or termites farm

d)  tartigrada (water Bear)

e) cancer cells 

f) small greenhouse 

This Is going to be an experimental trip to understand how earth life forms react to the interplanetary environments (radiation and micro gravity, ausence of the earth's magnetic fields, etc)

Also, it Is going to be a true test to our technology: the machines se send can withstand this 2+ years trip?

Leo 16, 01 / Jul 3, 17 18:17 UTC

I highly recommend watching the speech of Juan Enriques (Ted Talks) about this topic (partly). It is possible that we could simulate earths environment in Asgardias (possibly) upcoming space station. But even so, we would have to interact with space itself, in order to keep it running and when we build it. Maintenance for example, would eventually become a situation, which might require hundreds or thousands of working hours in the vacuum (from a single person) and cosmic radiation of space, if to be assumed that some workers stay months or years in the same job that requires them to be in outer space (which probably will be the case.). I think that the best solution, would be enhancement of either some individuals, and these enhancements would make them better suited for the harsh conditions of space.

Even if we could keep interaction with vacuum of space in minimal, we are still talking about a nation, that hopefully lasts years to come. Eventually we would have to rethink about our own biological evolution, and how to make it better suited to prevent future problems.