Dec 21, 16 02:38 UTC

Quick Thought to help bring in money for Asgardia  

Similar to a gofundme, not for myself but for Asgardia itself.

I have worked for the past 10 years around different types of call centers in central america. One I have seen receives calls from people, to help them think of ways to fix simple problems. Pretty much help people think outside the box. Who pays for a service like this, I am not really sure, but their is a call center that receives all types of calls to service people.

I have seen tech support call centers. For Example a few phone companies in the united states, have contracts with companies outside the united states to route tech support calls to the agents their. The agents are trained to follow a structure, if the customer calls to report X problem follow these set of trouble shooting steps, etc. to fix the problem.

To get to the point. I think maybe a business that can service other businesses. A call center the costs are the minutes for the phones, location, employees, utilities, internet. If a center full of asgardians is made, I am sure the way we would work it would be much better then just a regular company. Mainly because we would have all like minded individuals in one work place. And bit by bit start servicing companies, maybe even other nations, in certain ways.

Just a thought, to maybe another head be able to include their 2cents to see what can be created. We need to aside from getting recognized, Asgardia will have to pay for its own costs. I mean this hosting is not free, the domain name was not free, the people who created this forum, some I am sure had to be paid, we have to have asgardia pay for itself. For things to pay for itself a push is required, some times 2cents from everyone to create a self-efficient business.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but do educate me if I am lacking anything.

Dec 21, 16 03:41 UTC

further to your thoughts Obardovis.. I have had a similar idea to make money... Asgardia Services...from what I've seen here we have a lot of very talented people from all walks of life from almost every country on the globe....make a website for Asgardia Services: consultation...marketing...medical...computer services...architecture graphic design...linguistics...translators...philosophers music...engineering...legal...trades...logistics...writing... radio...tv...heatth...psychiatry...maintenance... gaming... to trucking...pretty well everything :)...similar to some of the big box stores offering contractor services in North America and we even have the talent here to create the website.

Dec 21, 16 04:45 UTC

Wow, you are correct about all of those types of services. Just the right structure and right mind set of people and it is possible. Having the right set of team leaders to help push small teams in each sector, goal oriented, with disciplined mind set.

I think starting off with one would be a start though. Then, figure out how to fund it, etc.

Dec 21, 16 09:34 UTC

I think this is a good time to throw up an example worthy of consideration. But allow me to build context first. My context building will start broad and wishy washy but bare with me as I narrow in on the point.

Asgardia is new. Not just a new nation but a total reinvention of what defines human. We traditionally think of ourselves as coming from earth. Asgardia as a nation proposes a greatly expanded view of what it means to be human. This is both a blessing and a curse.

When building a business model it is important to design it's architecture to support where it will be as much as where it is now and what it's first tentative steps will be. That is to say it needs a structure that does not need total reinvention as it grows. It simply has a structure in place to keep building on. It should not matter (within reason) what the initial revenue streams are (they may even seem obscure and completely out of context to an outside observer). It DOES matter whether their formation and operation hinders the progress of the long term envisioned goals and business of the company (Nation).

So now for the example.

Uber.

Uber is not a ride sharing company. It currently provides a ride sharing service. What Uber really is, is an automated vehicle broker. But Automated vehicles don't even exist yet. Brokering Automated vehicles are that company's future. In the mean time they've built a platform which can occomodate both the business they are in now and the business they will be in later. The move from one to the other will be seamless.

So, here's my question, because I'm not much good with answers.

What kind of business will a nation who "...has plans to launch satellites and unite people from all over the world as the first space nation" be in...later...down the track?

The answer to that might make earlier business models make sense.

Dec 23, 16 05:35 UTC

I think an R&D department that sells plans and prototypes of new techs could be a good business for a nation that is literally founded on the advancement of science and technology. Say for example the R&D department comes up with a new cell phone or communication design, they sell the design to a major cell carrier, the lead designer gets a commission off the sale and the rest goes back into Asgardia and the R&D department, allowing for further development and projects.

Dec 23, 16 16:36 UTC

Yes , I agree with you and before I apply to asgardia I during were writing my website about this concept untill now .so your concept are reality action . It is someway for make more profit to asgardia and everybody can do.

Dec 26, 16 04:59 UTC

"What kind of business will a nation who "...has plans to launch satellites and unite people from all over the world as the first space nation" be in...later...down the track?"

Later down the track, arguably much later, the "business" we will be in is furthering scientific understanding, knowledge, and personal betterment.

Attacked sensibly, then the infinte resources of the universe will come to grasp and facil things like fictional resources will become incredibly meaningless. Freedom from such constraints will allow for unrestricted personal growth, the process of which will further everything else. Everyone is interested in something, and assuredly every possible topic will be persued.

There will be requirement for a revenue stream in order to establish this, and from startup to frutition isn't likely to be rapid - however, it's easy enough to achieve for about $11USD/head at current population counts, and I'd challenge you to find a more worthy investment with lower barriers to entry.

Ofc the less strain this and other projects place on citizens - especially in the earliest of formation stages - the better, so wherever possible, fund should ideally be sourced from exchange of goods and services.

Dec 26, 16 19:05 UTC

Hi guys, I have a post in the Economics forum which i think you'd like, i have copied and pasted it here, would like your thoughts please, looking for a team to build a proposal.

"Hi Guys,

This is my idea for the Economy, now I'm not an economist so please feel free to help pick holes/develop the idea.

The reason why most typical Economies wont work for Asgardia is because Asgardia is not a typical country. It's citizens are spread across the planet, we have no tangible assets (except us), no natural resources, no companies paying tax, it is people from all over the planet coming together to try and achieve the same goals.

An efficient and effective Economy for Asgardia's unique situation, would be a service based Economy

We have thousands of eager people offering to help who have a wide range of skills: Programmers, Writers, Artists, Teachers, Musicians etc. the list goes on. Done correctly a service based Economy will help Asgardia grow whilst also allowing its citizens to make money for themselves.

We could achieve this by having a website where people can go to and view what services Asgardians have to offer, pieces of art they have created, etc then any sales that have been made would be subject to a commission charge (for example 15%). Both nation and citizen can benefit from this arrangement and no one is obliged to do anything or commit to anything they do not want to.

*We should have our own web browser like Google,Bing, etc. We could build a web browser and have an app feature like Google, we could have the main websites AIRC, ROOM, main Asgardia site, Forums, our VR library, Services page then any other projects associated with Asgardia VOA etc. The more users we have the more valuable the ad space becomes even if everyone uses as-blockers, the more projects associated with Asgardia and have their logo on the app section, the more users to the more sites, which means more funds.

As some people will be more desirable then others, its likely that some people may struggle as well as some people benefiting. We could have an agreement with each citizen where by they agree to a maximum wealth limit i.e everyone by law can only have up to 100 million Asgardian credits at any one time in their bank account (no idea currency plans). Anything they earn over has to be spent back in the economy.

Although some people might not have the desired skills needed in a professional manner even the smallest help can make big differences to someones life. This is purely an idea and would like peoples feed back.

What if we recorded everything people did to help others? Could be anything from getting shopping, crossing a road, donating money (although the value donated has no nominal value to the points) etc. All these deeds would acquire points and when you get to a certain number of points you would hit a level and receive a "good guy" status (or something better named!). This status would need to be maintained as i suggest that it resets annually.... You would receive a small Dividend for reaching this status as well as having your deeds stored on your profile/record for people to see. If you check out this Amazon Advert: LINK

Job automation is coming and there will be a lot of people out of work with not much else to do, perhaps a small incentive even just recognition is a direction worth thinking about as a way to deal with the inevitable. People often moan about basic income and that people will be paid to do nothing and in turn be lazy, why not pay people to be kind? Again just an idea I have had for quite a while.

Anything that is earned over ** goes to the "Asgardian charity pot". The pot is a website/(ministry department?) where people send in their charity projects, start ups/ education projects/ those struggling etc. but also includes ministerial projects like infrastructure, Research and Development, Education and Health etc etc. Then once a month, Asgardia charity pot send out a vote to all Asgardians asking them where they would like their allocation of funds spent {total pot size/nb of citizens). Then the funds get allocated according to each citizens vote.

**Earned over in millions

Limit = 100, Earned = 150, Kept = 100, Donated = 50 **

If you forget to vote the funds stay where they are and you have to use them next month.

Greed is what destroys nations, and greed can be fueled by personal drive/ambition, drive and ambition are good things and shouldn't be discouraged. In effect this is a super rich tax, not many Asgardians will achieve an earning to reach that limit, but those who do have a real opportunity to make a real difference to those who haven't, whilst still having all the luxuries of their hard labor.

This method also gives control and transparency to the nations citizens, it gives the ambitious a reason to keep progressing forward, and it removes (to an extent) greed from levels in which people can influence a nation.

This is simply an idea I had for Asgardia and is in no way the direction where Asgardia is planning on heading, it is just my opinion that this is the direction Asgardia should be heading :).

Would love to hear some thoughts, and ideally would love to see if people think this could be made in to a viable option.

Have a good day everyone."

Best wishes, Lloyd

  Last edited by:  yingyang (Asgardian)  on Dec 26, 16 19:05 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Dec 27, 16 15:17 UTC

Last I checked, Bing and Google are privacy invasive search engines, one of them actively deciding what data individuals will or will not be served with based on the data it's previously collected about you. Browser technology from parents to these firms would be Edge and Chrome - which is based on the open source project Chromium(which actually started life as an OS). The browser would make sense - to a point, the point being software that can be trusted to not leak data - The "app" part really doesn't. Why is there need for this? A browser executes code when it's fed some by the remote service it connects to - everything you need to be done can be done inside the page. App only really makes sense for a standalone application, or spyware. When you've just made a program that can do anything, why waste time making other programs with only one purpose?

With regards to increased automation etc, concepts like basic income really do make sense. Sure some people will be "lazy" and do nothing - but how much of doing nothing do you think most people will take? Freed of requirement to waste your time furthering someone else's agenda desperately chasing fictional resources in order to survive wouldn't you just begin to do anything you'd previously wanted to do but couldn't as all your time is monopolised? Everyone is interested in something and being free to persue these interests should result in unparalled productivity in almost every determinable field. A "famous" economist claims this is possible even with 80% just sat staring at walls. Self-betterment will become the new drive. A situation can realistically then develop where instead of stamping on those below you in order to remain afloat, instead you can reach down and lift them above you - and then there's no limits to the heights reached. Further, just being assured a basic standard of living doesn't discount things like employment - it just makes it so you can engage in this without a sense of requirement. I would rather have one employee that actually wants to be there, than 1000 who resent the task but endure. The quality of the work produced should speak for itself.

Offering services in order to gain additional funds, at least within the earlier stages is certainly viable. When we have no further need of their money as we are fully established and self supporting this can continue along the lines of charitable donation. People will do things either because they feel it needs doing or they wish to build/further experience in this field. When the measure becomes what you do, more than what you have acquired, expect a lot more to get done.

Ads are something I disagree with intensely. Anything worth actually obtaining you will already want. When was the last time you'd seen an advert for Siemens traffic management systems? how many countries have this running their traffic lights? how many use Siemens tech at the core of their comms infrastructure? A product worth buying will sell itself. Every time. We really shouldn't ever be in the situation where we are that desperate for money we will attempt any trick in order to seperate folks of it. A serious problem with "online advertising" is the amount and range of data collected and processed in order to make this "relevant". That will have long term consequences, and already firms are acting on this data in ethically and morally questionable ways. One thing most users seem alarmingly unaware of is once you sign over the rights to your data to a third party you then have no say in how it is used.

I don't think there's much sense with limiting "wealth", Lets pretend we are both equally endowed with resources, but I use less on useless things I don't actually need and as a result save the larger percentage of mine. Given enough time my "bank account" will be significantly larger than yours. Should I be penalised because you are unable to manage your resources effectively? Also, any money spent goes "back into the economy". Once we're past the primitive economy model of enforced scarcity in order to lend a fictional resource a sense of value and tapping the infinite physical resources of the stars there will be an initial flux as everyone tries to slake the thirst of their greed with things but after a little while that will settle down as the futility realised and people will concentrate more on what they need.

"Being kind" isn't something that should require some sort of incentive. It should simply be the socially responsible status quo.

  Updated  on Dec 27, 16 15:29 UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: typo, additional data.

Dec 27, 16 17:17 UTC

Glad you agree with the concept, of course it needs tweaking though i.e ads, features etc.

The SBE is the ideal first step to a money less society, a wealth limit is needed until we as a species surpass this primitive mindset we seem to be stuck in. It would only affect those who are very rich, I doubt you have saved 100 million $ or equivalent.

Agreed, but when people have no job, no money and nothing to do, would it be better for people to be paid to be kind, or to go out and break the law in order to eat? We know mass job loss is coming. This is trying to stop a problem before it becomes a problem.

  Last edited by:  yingyang (Asgardian)  on Dec 27, 16 17:18 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Dec 27, 16 21:56 UTC

I think you fail to understand many things.

People would never have "no job, no money, and nothing to do".

I could understand no job. That's purely up to them. You need to take into account that being employed by somebody else isn't the only productive thing available. Education, research, and exploration are just three things that come to mind. There's plenty more.

The premise of universal basic income is that the money required to assure a decent standard of living is provided - ofc what individuals actually do with this is up to them. The only possible way this should insufficient enough is if they are irresponsible with it. And then that's their problem - mayhaps they will learn a lesson. Such a thing is already underway as trial periods in several areas in several of the more progressive countries.

There is never nothing to do. There's always plenty to do. You need to stop waiting for other people to think for you and think for yourself. What is it you would want to do? What can you see around you that needs doing? It's that simple.

I'm not entirely sure what you'd mean by "SBE" - I assume this isn't Small Business Enterprise, or the Society of Broadcast Engineers as the definitions do not fit the concepts you put forwards.

The first ideal step towards a society sans currency is to stop coveting fictional resources. The best is to simply not use a form of currency to begin with. Wealth can be measured in more than just the size of your bank account. Again, in the face of infinite resources then currency is entirely facil. There's some required to kick it off, thanks to current constraints, but once that's done it's infinite payback. As there is far too many resources in space for any one individual or even organisation to harvest even over tens of thousands of years - and that's just this solar system - there's no sense in imposing any form of limits unless you plan on generating percieved scarcity in order to artifically elevate percieved value. Just like the current fiscal systems you've already correctly identified as being problematic. Far better to address the trend to acquire things for which you would have no need than to leave that intact and simply attempt to prevent them from obtaining.

Adverts are a large problem of this trend. It promotes it as every company attempts to compete for the same limited resources - commonly resulting in misleading and deceit. Rarely does this lead to things of some intrinsic value.

Dec 27, 16 22:15 UTC

By the things you are saying I think you miss understand my post, it's concept, and the thought process behind it to be honest (or perhaps it isn't clear I am trying to create the first stage of a money less society? and never said people should not think for themselves, and have more time to find themselves and what they want to do and how they can contribute) Job automation is coming, a lot of people will lose their jobs and as you said basic income is already being tested.

SBE is an abbreviation of the Economy i am proposing a Service Based Economy (which is in this thread ), i thought it would be clear.

You have twisted quite a few of the things I have said, or imply things that are simply not the case and please do not claim I do not think for myself, nothing could be further from the truth.

It is coming across you're intentions aren't constructive, and I only commented to be constructive and as this isn't my post, I will leave you guys to this thread.

I am not trying to be hostile just simply ending my contribution on this thread.

Have a nice evening.

Best wishes, Lloyd

  Last edited by:  yingyang (Asgardian)  on Dec 27, 16 22:41 UTC, edited 6 times in total.

Dec 28, 16 00:23 UTC

Ahh @ SBE - yeah, that makes sense, now I think.

I'm not attempting to be unconstructive - the complete opposite.

If establishing something new, wouldn't it be sensible to leave behind all the detrimental concepts and principles?

I understand this is a concept. Unfortunately, parts of it are attempting to import principles and methodologies directly responsible for a significant percentage of the problematic conditions you cite. This is unlikely to lead to differing conditions.

  Updated  on Dec 28, 16 00:23 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo

Dec 28, 16 00:55 UTC

Hi EyeR, nice to meet you here. I was disheartened to see your previous post, please understand I mean absolutely no disrespect and I felt you have some great points but I also felt you were a little dismissive and mean to Lloyd whose contributions over the last few months I have appreciated and I felt it was perhaps not in the spirit of constructive criticism on some points.

I have also compiled some my thoughts to portions of your previous comment.

"People would never have "no job, no money, and nothing to do" The word "job" or "work" means different things depending on the context in which it is placed. If you associate it with value then it is also determined against the context in which the word is used. In a world of ever increasing automation and the prospect of quantum computing becoming a reality that which we consider work could not only change but cease to exist completely, furthermore, if we have access to all we need, would we need money? To the point of nothing to do, sitting looking at a wall with nothing to do is still doing something, it's looking at a wall.

"The premise of universal basic income is that the money required to assure a decent standard of living is provided - ofc what individuals actually do with this is up to them. The only possible way this should insufficient enough is if they are irresponsible with it. And then that's their problem -mayhaps they will learn a lesson."

I would suggest from the research of past pilot projects on UBI that perhaps recipients of a basic income do not squander it but rather their standard of living thus improves and they are actually able to make gains. I would also suggest that there is no such thing as another person's problem within an interconnected community thus their problem is that of everyone and perhaps they will not learn a lesson but instead rob you at a convenience store. Here is the discussion paper Hugh Segal created regarding Ontario Canada's UBI pilot project. https://files.ontario.ca/discussionpaper_nov3_english_final.pdf

"I'm not entirely sure what you'd mean by "SBE" - I assume this isn't Small Business Enterprise, or the Society of Broadcast Engineers as the definitions do not fit the concepts you put forwards."

SBE is an abbreviation for Sharing Based Economy. A sharing economy is an economic model in which individuals are able to borrow or rent assets owned by someone else and are based on collaborative consumption and distributive justice, a sharing based economy might work well with UBI (universal basic income)

Dec 28, 16 02:11 UTC

I agree with shabewatt..... PS. : err shanewatt the SBE is for = Service Based Economy,a economy wheres we trade ours services ,theres a post about it here in the fórum(sorry i am in the cellphone cant pick the link,look at my profile i posted in the topic about that) ,