Nov 23, 17 / Sag 19, 01 20:17 UTC

... On translations  

I've heard several complaints about translations, and in general the language separations in Asgardia... and i agree they are unjust, but don't completely see a solution, so I open up topic for discussion instead of blog. (check my blogs, many are very good)

As parliament we will need to tackle this and many other important issues, and I think these forums give an important voice - I wish there was much more participation.

I will begin, by highlighting the problems I have been told of.

1) There are no/poor translations of the official doccumentation

2) there are no/poor translations of the site itself.

3) There is no way to tranlsate in the chat, blogs, petitions, forums, etc without copy and pasting over to some software.  

4) Petitions and Forums are in English only (by rule, with exceptions)

5) votors can only vote in their own district

... I'm sure the discussion will highlight many more.

I see a few solutions, but none are perfect

a) people, either payed or not, who are 100% fluent in English, and 100% fluent in another language translate - this is mandatory for 1 and 2, but nearly impossible for the others

b) implement some software inside or not, which automatically or by request can translate - unfortunately software misses nuance, it's why I call for 100% fluency, which no machine can be.... perhaps Ideal for all but 1 and 2

c) switch Asgardia to one official language such as Esperanto - or better something new including oriental and african persuasion - there will be no colorful use of the language for nobody is proficient, ideas will be short and simple and only those with passion for Asgardia will contribute.... not such a bad plan.... but takes much time.

d) Build an AI which actually understands language, and the physical world (I don't believe Sophia does, and I believe she is a hoax), teach it every language and set it to translate for us.

X) leave, or stay, and watch what happens without acting to improve it - forgivable, but sad.

z) don't translate and keep things the way they are - inexcusable

I will gladly now listen to your input, feedback, suggestions and comments.

Nov 23, 17 / Sag 19, 01 20:41 UTC

Why do you think citizens should be able to vote outside their district?  If that was implemented there would be no point to districts.

Also I just have to say that I personally do not like how you are calling the translations we have poor.  You are putting down the good people we currently have translating.  One reason people may feel the translations are poor is due to dialects.  Someone in Spain may expect the Spanish translation to be European Spanish but it's American Spanish.  I don't think people understand that there are different dialects of their language.  I was in charge of translations for a while and I remember someone complaining to me about the Arabic translation being wrong but when I investigated I found that it was a dialect issue.  This happens a lot and needs to be recognized.

Nov 23, 17 / Sag 19, 01 22:51 UTC

Those are excellent points... and you may have just made me light the fire beneath my own feet - but this is my opinion and I do not speak timidly.

Let me address one which I am sure I will live to regret :D  I am perhaps too critical on the web development - I'd say I have more experience solving code problems than any one person on it... and in fact most people in the industry... I'm not quite sure off the top of my head what approximately ~10*7*52*35 hours worth of debugging are.... but I'm sure it's much much higher than average.. and I'd bet I have proficiency similar to that of Slash on guitar.  Coding has been my *only life,  and yet I'm deemed incapable with no proof or appropriate challenge.  I can see that I am merely reflecting the experience of my life, and we need better than that... so I apologize... but please understand how frustrating it is to loose touch with people for days on end, when you could solve it in an hour... and then for a band-aid to cripple the site instead for months now.  Perhaps as I have tried to preach many many times, what they need is something that works rather than something that looks good... (while both is ideal, the current is certainly almost unusable)  They seem to be using a cookie-cutter word-press-like system they themselves do not understand, when I could wip one up over a week from scratch. (keeping it running under so many users, I'd look to Dahl for advice on)

I made a facebook before myspace and I made an asgardia (social democratic society) before Dr. Asurbeyli - but I failed because I alone am not enough.... I guarantee if he and I sat down together we could have made a better start than this, but it is what it is, and it is what we have, so lets use it to do better.

(see my hackathon petition)

Let me now address the second, which you are right on, but I ask you consider I do not know any language but English and French (and a touch of Esperanto and about 50 computer languages)  - and my French writing is pathetic at best. (oui, je suis vreament critique do moi meme aucie) (I wonder how the translator will do with that, what I think I said is: "yes, I am really critical of myself too!") That's after 20 years of being told my french isn't worth practicing by Quebecois (who most french feel mangle their language beyond recognition - man I hate being criticized by the ignorant!!!! ) and 10 years of learning the bloody language! (sorry, when you speak it it is rather beautiful, just hard and frustrating to no end to me who tried so hard, sacrificing much education because our "french immersion" focuses much less on fact than speaking.)  I do not hate the french, but I find often their mindset is of hatred for others, and yes having a french roommate for 10 years has taught me it is for some good reasons.

I use the wording above, as I see it used by others, and weather true or no... it is their opinion, what shall we do about it is my question... for dialects are equally the problem on miscommunication.

  Last edited by:  Asgardian 794177 (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Nov 23, 17 / Sag 19, 01 23:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Nov 25, 17 / Sag 21, 01 09:49 UTC

The language issue is one which we will, unfortunatley, always have to deal with. Even switching to something like Esperanto requires mass numbers of people to persue languge learning they may or may not have the capacity for. That said, allowing Asgardians of differing districts able to at least communicate more effectively is a good thing to pursue. While coding our own translation matrix would be interesting I don't know that we have the expertise. Both Google and Microsoft offer decent translation services and browser extensions can be used to translate on the fly. It may be more practical to use one of these solutions in a more official capacity than to invest the time and money necessary to develop our own.