Dec 20, 16 / Cap 19, 00 21:05 UTC

Communication Methods of the Future  

Hello everyone, this thread is open for discussion of future communication methods. This can include everything from social platforms to cybernetic communication enhancements.

If you come across something of interest to this thread, please share!

Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 09:12 UTC


Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 13:05 UTC

Highly important (IMHO) is to establish our own lines of communication that, preferably, bypass the "traditional interwebs". A larger percentile of operations I predict will be conducted via "the interwebs", it is therefore critical to ensure that a hostile foreign entity or nation be unable to trivially isolate citizens from such services. Addressing this sort of thing retroactively isn't clever.

Instantly satellites spring to mind, something like the iridium network, but this would involve additional equipment for most users.

Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 18:39 UTC

Well EyeR there are plans for satellites to be launched. So we wont be to far from it. We would need a hard Encryption system to keep... Unwanted presences on the network. This would co aside to the App idea I brought up. See the idea is to have a ID and Encryption system. Thus remove a list of problems.

  Last edited by:  Anthony Foster (Asgardian)  on Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 19:15 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 03:56 UTC

Surely you'd mean to keep "unwanted presences" off the network?

An app wouldn't remove a list of problems, it'd add them. Least of all in maintaining the app over time. It's also a software only solution that would be forced to leverage the existing and easy to manipulate/disrupt existing technologies. There's no way it's transmitter will get out of atmos reliably enough for data xfer, without "modifications". We require a method that's difficult to disrupt, and preferably one that readily bypasses existing technologies.

You're planning on combining encryption systems with smartphones?

There's a reason the CPU in them things cache encryption keys, and it's not for speed of access. It might be the same reason none of these devices ever get MOD clearance, or even authorisation to be present in "sensitive" areas. Even rooted, you're less in control over that device than some random in an office in Langley Falls. Or Shenzhen. Etc.

Having third parties in posession of the private key you're using kinda nullifies the entire point of having enryption in the first place.

It's possible to authenticate to such a network using PKS-11 but this again would require purchasing more hardware for most users. Things like smartphones probably wouldn't be very simple to link to a reader, and again, is likely to clone off the key.

I'd suggest for now to use a system similar to what I use for authentication to my VPN - X.509 - Each machine has a certificate it generated, which then gets signed by the server without ever leaving the machine. As it's actually possible to trust my hardware, I can then be sure the only copy of that key exists on the machine it's used for, in the event of compromise, or a machine leaving my possession then the certificate is simply revoked remotely. In the event of compromise of any individual machines key, then the other traffic remains protected.

I've toyed with the idea of embedding keys into passports, along with ID - but again, most users will require additional hardware for NFC/RFID reading(I could possible produce these for less than $10/unit, I've not looked how much they can be bought for as a product).

As for satellites, it was my first thought. Requires line of sight and succeptable to atmospheric disturbances, and again, easily wavebubbled or simply drowned with "noise". Would also require most users to purchase additional hardware - which if at all possible should be avoided. If unavoidable, rendered as cheap as practical.

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 19:34 UTC

What about Quantum Entanglement?

  Last edited by:  Mariya Kudryavtseva (Asgardian, Member of the Parliament)  on Nov 30, 18 / Sag 26, 02 09:11 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 02:40 UTC

Yeah, there's no need for the link(for me at least), I'm already conversant.

Such has occurred to me, but I don't see it as something that's likely to be usable in the next, say, six months.

It's certainly got many properties that would lend itself to long distance communications, and what attracts me the most is the quantum-level security builtin - however, right now it's not really considerable as "home technology". I don't have any equipment capable of producing anything like - and at current expansion levels, won't do for significant time, I certainly could not produce a unit small enough to be of practical use. There's also some issues.. Such things are "paired" up(I know it's possible for more than two, but for sake of simplicity) - for sake of argument, Particle A and Particle B. Due to quantum entanglement, changes to A also effect B. For a singular point to point connection, this is fine. You can flip bits on one end and read them on the other, and vice versa. Now try later to add in particle C to setup a data terminal in a second installation. This would require entanglement with A. and thusly isn't particularly suitable for expansion. It would become most impractical rapidly to entangle 600,000 particles to the first particle, especially six months later.

It's theoretically possible to do the first two, and one "spare" I suppose, and this "spare" one can then entangle others, and act as a repeater of sorts, but I'm not everly confident of entirely how this will play out in reality.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 06:16 UTC

It's still unlikely that Entanglement may allow classical information to travel faster than light, because the moment you take measurement of any information, you go classical, with classical instruments, sensory organs and electrobiochemical brain. But related techniques of Quantum Computing might allow for distributed and predictive processing to happen very fast, allowing for faster communication speed. And of course, who can tell for sure what will not be possible in future :)

Until unlikely superluminal information transfer happens, we are bound into ground with the speed limit of light. The only warrior for current time remains is nanotechnology, which fights with conquering smaller and smaller amount of space to increase computing power, enabling faster transmission. But we eventually will be pushing into our final threshold of Planck scale instrumentation and cannot go any way beyond.

Apart from Entanglement, another stream of research focuses on Group Velocity of light generated from anomalous refractive index in special states of matter. Such an experiment by NEC in 2000 allowed faster than light group velocity of light pulses, in fact 300 times the speed of light, which could bend time as the first light pulse emerged out from the chamber before the pulses even entered it. But still there, classical transformation of information was not possible due to the constraints said in first paragraph above.

If we could break that communication barrier, it would also enable us to receive communication from future, enabling infinitely faster evolution of human beings and technology, and achieving pure and true wisdom probably. But it's all very hypothetical at this moment.

  • comes back down into ground, now and here, sigh * :)
  Last edited by:  M Moniruzzaman (NCM, Asgardian)  on Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 06:25 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: Grammatical mistake push -> pushing

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 15:44 UTC

Travelling information faster than light isn't a primary goal, though. It's purely about getting the information there in a secure, reliable, and affordable fashion. At least to begin with. I was to understand once significant distances be achieved, then flipping bits via entangled particles would happen significantly faster than any form of wave or particle transmission can cover the same distance - this would be a critical requirement for communicating from the inner to outer solar system, for example, or from one solar system to another. I was under the impression that the greater part in the lag would be the equipment actually flipping the bits, or measuring the bit being flipped, as opposed to the distances invloved, so once you start considering vast distances, this could indeed travel those faster than light.

Although interesting phenomena, there's several issues with using such effects for communications - especially over distance. Utilising resonance of a material to additionally accellerate light would actually require a material to acellerate through. As for recieving communications from the future using such means, consider the speed of light. Speed is a function of distance over time. 0.000000001 seconds into the future isn't much practical use. To increase the time "into the future" you'd therefore require to increase the distance. Having an effect of three hundred times, you'd require to adjust the distance by 300 times, to get to a single second. To get even near ½ a day, you'd require lot of matter composed of entirely the same isotope(different isotopes will have different vibrations and therefore insulate the effect, especially over distance) and it's again something to rapidly become impractical.

Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 13:27 UTC

Recommend use of NTRU Encrypt and other post quantum crypto. Also recommend minimum current asymmetric strengths: AES-256, 512-Whirlpool, Cast-5, RSA-4096, DSA-2048, ECC and ECDH 512, NTRU N 251. For future vs attacks from Shor's Algo, we can use NTRU N 251, AES-256-CBC or XTS run in triple cascade like Triple DES was used. ECC/ECDH would have to be increased to current RSA levels (2048, 4096 ) and RSA would need to be bumped to insane 8192 or more (likely rendering RSA impractical).

There is also a perfect random XOR cipher scheme I am prepared to give (not homebrew, just a protocol) that allows use as an asymmetric system and as a key exchange algo.

Transmissions over shortwave, running our own servers are both great ideas. I also propose our own ISPs, and our own VPNs accessible to citizens similar to I2P for a virtual nation "border".

Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 14:57 UTC

+1 VPN - I touched on that lightly somewhere else, I was thinking of "new" things in here.

I also agree with the new standards - new (trustable) hardware, new protocols, preferably new technologies too. Identifying potential areas of research is never a bad thing -In the short term it makes sense to try and work with what's available, and we are desperately in need of a communications infrastructure that isn't dependant on the goodwill of third parties.

Some sort of distributed shortwave system could potentially provide for slow but distant links across populated and semi-populated regions for a larger number of cases and as most people have a sound card, it's possible to rig this up for users with v. little extra equipment (antennae into the microphone jack and run the other side like the old "teletext" system, content transmitted in a round robin fashion. ) - however, tx on these bands can require license in some countries. Also to get anything more than basic download capacity extra hardware will be required for end users, and AM is easily wavebubbled or simply drowned with noise.

A slightly "better" idea would be 3G - As most providers are/have upgraded their networks to 4G, all the 3G hardware they have is going off reasonably cheap. As most users already have a tardphone this could be used directly or for tethering - if required 3G modems are common and cheap. For negatives, there's various sim-side security concerns at manufacturing level - but I think they can be mitigated later - again, easily wavebubbled and drowned with noise there's also potentially licensing of use in various regions that may become problematic.

Dec 26, 16 / Cap 25, 00 22:51 UTC

How about we have our own web browser like google, We could build one and have an app section like google, we could have the main websites AIRC, ROOM, main Asgardia site, forums, then any other projects associated with Asgardia VOA etc. The more users the more income, the more projects associated with, the more users the more funds. Plus we can have the hardware for it on the satellite, then we might not have to abide by any privacy laws when we become a nation so people who aren't even Asgardian would want to use the browser.

I don't know how telecommunications work but i imagine you could do the two at the same times and then have a secure server for Asgardians to use as a service provider? Each Asgardian contributes to the overheads.

  Last edited by:  Lloyd Cox (Asgardian)  on Dec 26, 16 / Cap 25, 00 22:56 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Dec 26, 16 / Cap 25, 00 23:22 UTC

Having our own browser isn't entirely a poor suggestion. Unlike screwgle it shouldn't be harvesting any data it can obtain access to however.

It certianly shouldn't require an "app" section, webservers naturally having the ability to send code to the client for execution means anything a page is required to do can be made to be done with the page itself.

How precisely do you propose to use such a thing to begin farming Asgardians as a source of revenue?

How precisely do you predict the common household user to connect to a satellite -=- Last I checked, comsat uplinks don't feature in most homes, and are not the cheapest options available. You might be able to use a soundcard for input, and most have them - but 3.5 phono jacks are starting a trend of falling into disuse, so in ten years time might start becoming rare.

Dec 26, 16 / Cap 25, 00 23:40 UTC

I have a forum post about income from an SBE, and I do not know the answer to your second question. All I know is a web browser is a damn good idea and if there is a second page like google for apps/ or associated projects (displayed by logos) it encourages people to get behind it.

It needs tweaking but in my opinion it is the way Asgardia should be heading short term.

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 17:13 UTC

I do agree with a web browser. It would get our name out, as well as it would be a stepping stone. I will say I would use it. For that... I only use a cell. (─‿─) So it's a bitter sweet. It would have to be formatted for mobile. Before I can use it.