Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:14 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Declaration of Unity  

Regarding point 6, how's going to be garanteed that the principle of reciprocity will be respected from other nations towards Asgardia? And point 12, I think that earth history is important to learn from our mistakes, but in the sense that the historical differences between earth nations and religious creeds are not allowed in Asgardia must be more explicit, if I understood the background sense in that statement.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:15 UTC

Why religion is prohibited

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:18 UTC

Im confused too about point 12. My first thoughts are that it means we, as citizens of Asgardia, must to forget not our History, but the historic and actual conflicts that involve our countries or concrete communities, because they are meaningless in Asgardia.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:35 UTC

In #12 - History is important. Instead of focusing on leaving earth behind, and only paying attention to our own history, we should consider what would benefit all of humanity and not just Asgardia. We should lift humanity up with ourselves, not leave them behind.

Also, in #10, the word "boarders" is used. This should be corrected to "borders", as the first refers to one who boards, which could in turn mean one who boards a vehicle, one who boards (lives in) a building, or one who puts up boards. The second refers to the demarcated and agreed upon boundaries between two states.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:39 UTC

The only thing that really worries me is #12. As it reads, it's as though after so long when Asgardia becomes able to leave Earth behind that future generations born on the ship/station will not be taught about Earth. I think that Earth should always be taught about as not to forget our roots. Now if it instead means that we won't be teaching people "Earth History" as in the Boston Tea Party and the Industrial Revolution then that's fine.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:47 UTC

Like others who have pointed we must lean from Earth's history not ignore it. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"-George Santayana. And there are some minor grammatical errors.

  Last edited by:  Radu Maican (Asgardian)  on Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:49 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 18:53 UTC

i have some problems with this:

"3. Any citizen of Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia, if he concurs with this Declaration, accepts the Future Constitution and legislation of Asgardia. "

the great problem with this is: if everyone can become asgardian it would not overload us? like imagine if at least 60% of earth become Asgardians ... the number of people who would need a ID , the problems that it could bring with certain countrys (not every country leader would like of his people turning half-asgardian) and i personaly think that we need some way to control this like: - Every 2 Years Asgardia would open 48h (could be longer no problem) registration for every earthling to become a asgardian.... in this way the ministry of citizenship would have more productive time to do things like: every Asgardian have a ID? theres something that we need? and so on...

Some people may say that I am dividing Asgardians and Earthling, but the chance would be for everyone in the opening period, and if we leave it always open we can have more inscriptions than we can bear ...... I think we should first look at our Ability to manage before trying anything... in the time between the openings we could do some preparatory work for the new citizens organize ourselfs and so on....

BUT if its say that everyone in eath have the rights to become asgardian and not that asgardia inscriptions would be unlimited i agre with it....

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 19:53 UTC

I do not like the use of word "race" in article 4. What is a race? The people with different skin colour? The people of different size? This carries on a long tradition of dividing human beings into different groups based on subjective differences . There's only one human race on this planet and we should not forget to what that concept has led to over the last 200 years. The following word "nation" is sufficiently explicit on its own . Another point should be introduced claiming that Asgardians do not recognise the concept of race. I am surprised, if not shocked, that nobody has reacted on that so far. Still on article 4, it should be added "sexual orientation and religion" if we want to be in accordance with the principle of "free spirit" enacted in article 11. LGBT people exist and should also be treated as equally as the others. And regarding religion, regardless of the fact that you believe or not in the existence of a spiritual being/world, you cannot take religion out of the people as far as they respect the other principles.

As for article 9, I have the same reserves as many comments here. We were told that government will be elected but this article denies the existence of political parties. While I understand the significance of this statement (some parties carry on divisive and extreme ideas), the wording needs to be reassessed as it goes against the basics of democracy: politics within political debate. Or our actual leader is trying to create Pluto's Utopia and we know that this doesn't work and leads to an aristocratic government, ie the government of the "bests", or an oligarchy which in themselves are a form of dictatorship.

Article 10 is an international law nonsense especially in regards with article 8. If we are a free nation with our own nationality, we cannot "freely live in the borders of any earthly country". No one cumulates all the nationalities of the world and we will still require a visa to settle in a foreign country . So it should be "At the same time, every Asgardian is allowed to live within the borders of any earthly country according to its national law". There should also be a statement declaring that all Asgardian citizens are entitled to keep their nationality of origin.

Article 11: the last 2 words "on Earth" should be deleted. Why onlyn on Earth? See my comment on article 4.

Finally, article 12. I don't agree with the first sentence. Yes, there is a place for Earth history on Asgardia as we should never forget the mistakes made as well as the good improvements. We will be creating a better new history from the past and not from nothing. It's the dictatorships wich rewrite the past or erase it.

Thank you for your consideration .

  Last edited by:  Franz-Joseph Von Habsburg (Asgardian)  on Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:01 UTC, Total number of edits: 5 times

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:00 UTC

I really like the part where it says that Asgardia will not engage in politics, it gives me a true sense of free dom.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:08 UTC

Point 9: "No place for political parties" - what does this mean? Are we talking about a form of direct democracy or something else entirely? This should be made clearer.

Point 11: any religion PERIOD would be more appropriate.

Point 12: As already mentioned by others, history is indeed important. I agree with the other posters on this point. I particularly like S. Calvin interpretation, I think it could be used as a basis for rewriting point 12.

  Last edited by:  Vincenzo Pandolfo (Asgardian)  on Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:10 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: added empty lines between points

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:15 UTC

Please add religion to Art. 4 I really like that in Asgardia there is no space for politics. I believe that if we'd live in 100% tolerance to each other, and i think that's possible, it will be the greatest invention for all of us.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:19 UTC

This declaration is very bad in its actual state...

Points 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are fine.

The preamble is way too pedantic... "first in the history of existing humanity Space country Asgardia", really? Plus, birth is not a right, it's a fact, and the universe does not grant any right to any species. "We, the free people of the space nation Asgardia, adopt this declaration" would be more than enough. For the same reason, I would sign with "Asgardia, space state". Even though "space state" is not a notion yet and Asgardia will probably define it, "the space state" is very pretentious and supposes that there will be no other space state.

Point 6 should be rephrased as "Asgardia does not interfere in the affairs of the states on Earth and expects reciprocity". Unless it is meant to mean that if another state interferes in Asgardia's affair then Asgardia feels allowed to interfer in this state's affairs. This is not a good idea.

For the point 7 I do not think Asgardia is meant to interact with the Earth other than to promote space exploration. It should not interfere with Earth politics, earthly state can do that.

Point 8 is ok, but is would be good to have a list of rights before-hand in the declaration, otherwise the second part about "exclusive rights" does no mean anything. I think the Universal Declaration of Human Rights from the UN can be referenced as is in a statement.

Point 9 is a serious bad! It denies freedom of reunion (because that is all a political party really is). And as politics is either the relationship between governement members and its people or with other governements, Asgardia is already engaged in politics.

Points 10 seems overly poetic which removes all clarity. Moreover it adds little information. It should be merged with point 3, which would phrase "Any citizen of Earth, wherever he or she resides, can ..."

Point 11 is phrased in a very weird way, the second part on religion should be removed altogether. Plus Asgardia is not a country as it has no territory, it is a nation or a state (actually nation might not even be right as Asgardians do not form a uniform culture, we have different language, ethnicities and cultures and this diversity should be encouraged).

Point 12 attacks the freedom of information as it can be understood as an prohibition of discussing or teaching Earth history. On top of that it would be stupid for a Nation whose citizens live on Earth to deny the history of the place they live in.

I hope it changes or I'll have to create "Ragnarock, another space nation"

  Last edited by:  Mathurin Dorel (Asgardian)  on Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:25 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:21 UTC

Every point is solid in its essence. I love where Asgardia is heading to :)

  Last edited by:  Michael Turc (Asgardian)  on Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:22 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:25 UTC

Not to be a buzz kill but um some religious practices and beleifs are oppressing and abusing women, not joking. So will we restrict Some? Earth history is needed but not every but, like wet and ww2, that's important. Other than that I understand the rest and agree with it.

Mar 27, 17 / Tau 02, 01 20:28 UTC

I don't agree with n°12 as every history is important, even when it exists out of "alternative facts" ;-) it gives a good insight of how a certain group of people used to think. Also, earth history is our history. That's my opinion on it.