Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 02:23 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Declaration of Unity  

I forgot about the header in my previous post so here goes:

We, the free people of the first in the history of existing humanity Space country ASGARDIA, based on the birthright of Man in the universe, adopt this DECLARATION

Without being too critical this just doesn't work in English. We all know what it is trying to say however the translation isn't working. Maybe something like:

We, the free people of the space nation Asgardia, adopt the following principles as a declaration of our unity and the basis of the first space nation

..or..

We, the free people of the space nation Asgardia, make the following declaration of principle

..or..

We, the free people of the first space nation Asgardia, declare and adopt the following principles

..or..

We, the free people of Asgardia, declare the following to be true principles of our society and adopt them as our own

..or..

We, the free people of Asgardia, declare the following

or something similar.

if something is "adopted" it must be for a purpose and that purpose must be stated (as it is not implied, like in adopting a child) If something is declared it is usually declared as the reason, support or basis for another purpose. If Asgardia is to be claimed the first space nation then it does not need to be justified by birthright etc. The justification is in the creation, which I think we can agree is on it's way to being done. Besides, the universe does not give us a birthright. Further, if we think it is the birthright of "man" then what if we find other life forms? aren't we just enacting the thinking of our predecessors who claimed that God gave them a right to treat others badly.

Let's just stick to the facts that we want a space nation, it (and us as citizens) will behave in a certain way and unify around certain goals and principles.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 02:52 UTC

Point 12th, "there is no place for Earth history in Asgardia. Asgardia creates a new history of the future of the humankind". Asgardia was born on the earth, it was not generated after the "big-bang". A before and after, of course.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 03:58 UTC

Statement 12 is kinda vague. Let's reword it so that it doesn't really mean forgetting the past on Earth. Furthermore, our Asgardia, I believe, would be a place of knowledge and wisdom, like an Athens in the sky. I guess it would be inconsistent with that view to just forget precious knowledge and stories from the past.

Won't we also make statement(s) regarding standard moral principles which we will be adopting as a nation? Which will basically guide us in our behavior as a nation? (ex. We will not tolerate or condone violence and ill-will of any kind. We exercise temperance and absolute tolerance over differences and innate imperfections.)

And, to make the cause of our Asgardia grander and more serious, I would like suggest that the Declaration be re-worded, esp. by changing the choice of words. Make it sound like it is coming from our hearts, instead of placing those words like we are merely narrating (excuse me for those who do not like grandstanding. HAHA).

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 05:13 UTC

@bigred I like your suggestions very much.

@wtmcalpine you are correct about all the points you have highlighted. However, since this Declaration of Unity will become a legal document, the language must be very clear. I am sure we all believe we think what is meant, but there is too much ambiguity as far as the concepts expressed in concerned.

I'm sure you know all of this already, but I think it's worth mentioning for the benefit of the general public.

  Last edited by:  Yoevelyn Rodriguez (Asgardian, Comm Assistant)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 05:22 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Added some thoughts.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 05:52 UTC

I get the idea that this is a draft, and so, this is still not official, but things like this will keep happening, so, keeping that on mind I consideer that a voting sistem would be great, where, all asgardians could vote every point of the declaration, and furthermore, the constitution and laws, all of this with the simple format:

Do you agree with the written XXXXXX , point YYYYYYY of the ZZZZZZZZ of Asgardia

1.0YES.

2.0NO, suggestions_ Arguments__

if NO% is equal or more than 20% the law/publication/declaration, etc... must wait And make public all suggestions

after a time of the released suggestions, a committe will come with come with them with new and actualized versions of the same point to put them in votation.

1.0 CHOISE A

2.0 CHOISE B

3.0 CHOISE C, etc..

4.0 NO CONFORMITY WITH ANY

winer option will be the over 50% option. This could be an option to ensure that asgardians can participate in goverment without being part of a political party this whole process can be done trought a few days (about a week) and will be far more organized that what we are doing today If you agree, please copy/paste in your comentary to help the idea to spread

This sistem will bring peace, respect and representatibility

  Last edited by:  Adrian Olivas Rueda (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 05:54 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 06:00 UTC

Explanations as stated by bigred in page 8 of the discussion must be taken in account, and I´m Fully in agree with him, because that limits what do people have to understand about the stated, shorter versions can be written for other purposes, but something as important must contain very specific aclarations of the therms used. Tank you very much.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 06:47 UTC

floydkelly on page 7 of this forum has some good wording concerning statements 6-8.

Also I may have misunderstood the intent of statement 11.
Read floydkelly's wording as it is a different strain of thought than the rest of us have put forward.

Phicksur on page 6 has some notable thoughts on statements 3 & 4. He (sorry I assumed "he") is also correct in noting (as stated by the administrators on the FAQ) very few people in this founding iteration of Asgardia are going to live in space. Actually, due to many factors including the international space treaty, it could possibly be a very long time before any standard citizen of any country actually "lives" in space. That understanding helps keep perspective in what we are discussing here and how we discuss it.

  Last edited by:  Paul Bellamy (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 07:04 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 06:52 UTC

@Adolru your suggestion of a voting system is pretty good why not take it to the forums which discuss governance and legislation.

I think it is worth discussion and it probably won't get the proper attention in this forum

@Yovy - you may like my thoughts but I adore your avatar.... I want one, I want one. where is it from? :-)

  Last edited by:  Paul Bellamy (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 06:57 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: a bit of fun :-)

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 08:06 UTC

I support and endorse the idea of Elwe Thor on his post of 28 March 2017, 2:15 p.m.

About point 9 if we have an indirect democracy we need some kind of "political party" otherwise, indirect democracy simple doesn't work.

About point 11, there should be religion's freedom even if not public expression but private. Condemning and banning religion "a priori" is a rapid way to limiting freedom of thought, and that's is going to the opposite direction on what Asgardia want to be.

About point 12, we need to remember the Earth History, or we will never break the adage "Humanity never learn from the error of the past"

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 08:10 UTC

I entered quite a bit of text there on Page 7 of this thread. I edited many times and still could use more edits and scrutiny. The following is what the Declaration of Unity document may look like with my proposed changes. I arrived at this based on needed grammar and "translation" related to the ideas and concepts already released in Decree N4. I removed the numbers so as not to be confusing in thread posts and future readers. During the next phase - to the personnel responsible for the next draft; feel free to use any of the following. The text below could still use a few edits.

We, the people of the first space nation-state, Asgardia; hereby adopt this official document, DECLARATION of UNITY.

Asgardia - The Space Nation, is open for citizenship to all individuals of all earthly nation-states. The foundation of Asgardia is based on the concept of unity.

The objectives of Asgardia are to:

Ensure Earth's internationally-agreed space laws are applied to exemplify the idea of peace amongst Asgardia's citizens, on Earth as well as in space.

Develop actionable programs identifying threats to Earth which originate from space; and, work together with Asgardians to develop programs to eventually protect Earth from these space threats.

Ensure equal opportunities to all Asgardians, regardless of financial means, technological knowledge; and/or other real or perceived attributes of each Asgardian's earthly citizenship.

Asgardian citizenship is available to any individual on Earth who agrees to comply with Asgardia's Declaration of Unity; the Asgardian Constitution and also abide by the present and future legislations approved by Asgardia's citizens or governing body.

All citizens of Asgardia are considered equal - regardless of each citizen's Earthbound country-of-origin, residence or citizenship. All citizens of Asgardia are also considered equal regardless of age, gender, language, disabilities - real or perceived.

Asgardia respects the internationally-agreed laws of the nation-states of Earth. Asgardia, as a whole, is working to be recognized as an equal nation-state amongst the nations of Earth.

Asgardia as a whole, and it's citizens; agree not to participate in the interference or disruption of any business or political affairs related to the nation-states of Earth.

Asgardia respects the rights of each of it's citizens as granted by each nation-state or earthly jurisdictions.

Asgardia, as a whole, does not adhere to a political structure and; hence, there are no political parties within Asgardia. Every citizen of Asgardia is encouraged to participate in political affairs within their own nation on Earth.

Asgardia, does not promote any religious practices and no official religion is associated with Asgardia, now, nor in the future. The citizens of Asgardia and it's governing body encourages individuals who adhere to religious practices to do so in accordance with each citizen's beliefs on Earth only.

By accepting the Declaration of Unity for Asgardia; I hereby affirm a new future for humankind and I hereby embrace the Declaration of Unity for Asgardia.

I, __ an individual with special interest in the welfare of Asgardia's citizens and Earth's citizens, hereby adopt this Declaration of Unity.

I, __ an individual with special interest in the welfare of Asgardia will diligently endeavor for the prosperity of Asgardia - The Space Nation.

I, __ hereby accept this Declaration of Unity for Asgardia; in hopes of protecting Earth from man-made and/or natural space threats.

I, __ hereby accept these words and ideas expressed within this document and hereby sign

Declaration of Unity
Asgardia - The Space Nation
One Humanity - One Unity

  Updated  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 01:13 UTC, Total number of edits: 6 times

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 08:25 UTC

Dear Asgadians, "The Declaration of Unity" is comply with the concept of Asgardia. Concept was the frame work as put forward and we all compel. Declaration will be the very foundation which we will elect. And in a very democratic way brought to our review well in advance

In life, every step we take, every decision we make is politics, not necessarily in the context of established political norms or organized political movements. The very same approach will definitely be true for the future of Asgardia as we simply can not change the human nature. But, I fully support the the banning/limiting clause of political parties and political activities in Asgardia, let us satisfy this need in the usual manner in our earthy everyday life on earth.

As far as disclaiming Earthly history (clause 12), there the intent happened to be victim of wording again disregarding the fact how it is going to be interpreted. There, two different entities must be separated to better understand the intent. Asgardia entity as a new nation and Asgardians. Of course Asgardia as a new nation will not have history to inherit. But Asgardians we will have definitely have our past, by this declaration I understand we will be expected to carry our worthy experience for the well being of Asgardia not our past differences.

Overall, the declaration is in line with the concept but to avoid certain misinterpretations, wording of certain clauses ( 9 - 12 in particular ) needed amendments to avoid future concerns.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 09:03 UTC

@floydkelly - i understand where you are going and you have some great thoughts.

It might be wise to look into "international laws" before we agree to them. A notable item is "international space laws" which are self regulated by the signatories to the UN space treaty. Worth a read some time to understand what I mean. Perhaps these need to be redefined for a space nation.

Remember this is only a statement of principle that we can agree on to show unity of intention and goals as a nation. I suppose it is like a rallying point for our motivations.

I would guess the reason agreement with this declaration is a lineal step toward full Asgardian citizenship (see voting procedures attached to Decree 3) is because it outlines the principles and motivation for the Asgardian ideal society. If a person does not agree with this set of principles then they are unlikely to agree with the codification of a constitution or legislation.

It seems to me there is no need to cover all the details just the broad principles.
I would think that generally the details of interaction are generally codified in the constitution and the minutiae of daily interactions are held in legislative documents.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 09:10 UTC

Off the subject but has anyone else noticed the timeframe on this server.

if it is using UTC then it has to be in greenland, iceland or the very west coast of africa

no big deal but would be super cool and a little ironic to think we are using a server near the doomsday bank :-D

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 09:18 UTC

It's in Germany.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 09:41 UTC

Totally agree!!! When will be possible to see the candidates for ministerial positions?