Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 09:54 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Declaration of Unity  

@Eyre & @Rainbow - totally off the topic but good fun :-D

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 10:18 UTC

I think the declaration needs to tighten its restraints on religion. For example, rather than saying "Asgardia is a country of free spirit, science and internationalism. At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice any religion on Earth," can it not say the same but be tweaked slightly to have a more restrained nuance? For example: "At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice religion on Earth, so long as the religion in question does not bring harm to others. Furthermore, Asgardians are discouraged from following religions of which contradict Asgardian ideals." I think although harsh, it's necessary to discourage - not outlaw, mind you - blind religion that goes against overwhelming scientific proof (I.e, believing the world flooded and was repopulated by one man, his family, and two of every animal). Furthermore, I think including the term "any" makes people feel a bit too entitled. While both mean the same thing, it has a less limitless approach, as there are - of course - limits. Also, the inclusion of not bringing harm to others would be important in weeding out extremism. Now my views are quite strong, and in fact I've watered them down to be a bit more fair and politically correct, however I hope at least some of this is considered, especially the exclusion of religions of which bring harm to others (sacrificial religions, cult religions, extremism, exclusive/supremacist religions, etc.). Like many others, I am quite confused in regards to point 12. What does this mean, and is it necessary? If we forget our history surely we forget the lessons we've learned also. I would also like a bit more elaboration on point 9. What government will we have? Could we have a technocracy? I think that would be fitting.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 10:27 UTC

I agree with Xaphyr on his points. The wording definitely needs to be tightened.

Xaphyr, I encourage you to participate in the discussion and suggestions put forth on the Constitution. https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/constitution-132/topic/working-thread-compilation-of-community-suggestions-for-the-asgardia-constituion-2993/?page=1

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 11:48 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 12:07 UTC

Maybe we need to extend this point: The religious extremism and the denial of the science are not allowed in Asgardia.

  Updated  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 12:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 12:19 UTC

Maybe we need to extend this point: The religious extremism and the denial of the science are not allowed in Asgardia.

Now comes the rub.

Define your terms in a way that do not infringe on religious liberties or personal responsibility.

Religious Extremism
Denial of Science

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:00 UTC

Good start and like many already I'm slightly a bit confused/concerned about some of the wording but nothing too extreme. My thoughts follow on each of the Articles, but be advised I'm not a legal mind, just a regular man. I will add my interpretation in brackets for easier reading./ Article 1: Asgardia is a free and unified space state. (I personally would prefer it read : Asgardia is a space nation based on a Unified Humanity and Personal Freedoms.)
Article 2: the objectives of Asgardia are to: • ensure peace in space (nothing worth changing here unless you want to include how this is to be achieved?) • ensure the protection of planet Earth and the entire humankind from outer space threats; (maybe to include Human based space threats and not limited to Aliens or asteroids etc) • ensure equal opportunities in space for all Asgardians living on Earth, regardless of geographic, financial, technological and other features of the countries of their earthly citizenship./

  1. Any citizen of Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia, if he concurs with this Declaration, accepts the Future Constitution and legislation of Asgardia. (He should be changed to "They" to include the feminine otherwise someone may complain, and maybe in the future "They" could included other sexual genders/non genders as apparently they are becoming more popular these days)./4. All citizens of Asgardia are equal, regardless of their country of origin, residence, citizenship, race, nation, gender, language, or financial standing. ( I agree Sexual orientation should be included but maybe it should also include Earth Based 'Class' to remove the current Royalty/Lordships/Gentry barriers)./
  2. Asgardia respects the laws of the states on Earth and the international agreements and wishes to be recognized as equal country among other states on Earth.

  3. Asgardia does not interfere in the affairs of the states on Earth on the principle of reciprocity.

  4. Asgardia takes part in events on Earth at an international level, like any other country, based on its membership in respective international organizations (nothing wrong with these ones)./ 8. Asgardia respects the rights of citizens of Earth states, and protects the rights of its own citizens when it comes to their exclusive rights as citizens of the Space State. (Will need clarification as rights in one state is different from another and with citizens having dual nationality we don't want to infringe on nation states citizens rights or impose ours on said states, i:e, to prevent criminal acts and judicial sentences being prevented by someone claiming dual nationality?)./

  5. Asgardia does not engage in politics, there is no place for political parties in Asgardia. But every Asgardian can freely participate in political life on Earth. (I agree Asgardia should have no political parties but there should be in place a system to prevent dictatorships or corruption of positions of power (maybe a popularity/results based election system?))./
  6. Asgardia mirrors the Earth, but it does not reflect the Earth’s borders. At the same time, in the framework of earthly law every Asgardian can freely live within the borders of any earthly country (nothing wrong with this Article)./
  7. Asgardia is a country of free spirit, science and internationalism. At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice any religion on Earth. (maybe additional text to include that anyone practising religion of any form will not try to enforce/coerce/ threaten said religions on others against their will or disrupt practitioners of other religions.)./
  8. There is no place for Earth history in Asgardia. Asgardia creates a new history of the future of the humankind. (We should have a history of sorts otherwise we will be doomed to make the same mistakes again, maybe include it as to a precursor as to why Asgardia was formed in the first place?). That's my, my brain aches now.
  Last edited by:  Hadden Bramham (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 16:55 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:11 UTC

@HaddenB : Can you please add formatting to your post? It's really hard to read.

Also, here is the forum formatting guide: https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/welcome-127/topic/formatting-guide-56/

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:12 UTC

I feel that the objectives of Asgardia (point no. 2) should also include "for the furtherance of science and development of scientific temper within the human species.".

Also, point no. 12 is ambiguous and the implications need to be explained properly.

Other than these, I have no issue with the Declaration. Concise and succinct.

I apologise for any redundancy created by bringing forth my suggestions.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:19 UTC

@LoreZyra - it's not possible to post on that link anymore so I cant post there however, for everyone's info the editor responds pretty well to HTML coding as well.
That might make it easier for anyone who is interested

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:26 UTC

Thank you for the clarification and your thoughts Yovi... I completely agree... the document should be clear unambiguous.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:30 UTC

I apologise for any redundancy created by bringing forth my suggestions.

Instead of 'redundancy' think 'voting for the change to happen'. Really helps change how you can view your own input. Everyone has a voice, and should use it.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:35 UTC

Everyone has a voice, and should use it.

Absolutely! In order for a democratic nation to operate, its Citizens must be (self) compelled to speak up (or forever hold your peace).

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 13:35 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 14:39 UTC

David, I was referring to the possibility that the same points might have been made earlier, this making my suggestions a mere repetition.

P.S. : I like your work on the Constitution, and on the forum in general. I wish I could contribute to things myself too but there's time constraints​.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 14:41 UTC

@Zyra, always been an advocate of free speech. My motivations for that particular line weren't meant to (wrongly) exhibit my lack of willingness to speak.

But I do hope the points put forth by the community, myself included, will be addressed aptly.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 16:56 UTC

Re@ Lorezyra Thanks for the remark, I tried that before but it never seemed to work, but its all sorted now thanks.