Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 05:13 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

@Dmitry Novoseltsev
Colleagues, does anybody know who the developers of the draft, or is it a conspiracy?
Do they read this forum and react somehow to the objection?
I would like to hear some answers – if not agreed with the objection, at least convincing argument.

Well... "reaction"... all I know is they "react" a lot if you ask too much things or make too much assumptions (or create threads they don't want/like).
About the word in your third sentence, the 7th one to be exact (I underlined it for your convenience), it's common agreement you can't be so rude to use it in a forum which can be read even by kids: use the "A-word" instead, please.

@LoreZyra
Worth remembering Dr. A (this forum seems full of A-words...) is the boss of Ms. De Winne: pretty sure "he knows" and, probably, "asked" her to behave that way.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 10:58 UTC

@Rainbow - I understand you are trying to keep the focus on the draft constitution and I am not for or against any particular proposal, However I would think that someone re-writing the proposal following the exact format of the original was a pretty big comment on the official draft.

In making comments it is not responsible or productive to just say "This is rubbish". There must be constructive suggestions of why it is thought to be "rubbish" and how a person proposes it would be made better.

It would seem to me that everyone who has "re-written" part or all of the official draft is actually making the most beneficial comments. Therefore criticism, questioning and discussion of the why's and how's of such proposals will lead to the most beneficial informational comments to be passed onto the administration team.  After all these comments are to be summarised for the admin team and it would be better to summarise properly debated and presented comments with documented reasons and proposed options than to just hand in a great pile of ideas on which there has been no rational debate or proper understanding or agreement.

  Last edited by:  bigred (Asgardian)  on Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 10:59 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 12:44 UTC

@LoreZyra on 27 May 2017, 6:10 p.m.

<<   I seriously doubt we will see anything (2nd/3rd/etc) new before Asgard 1, 0001 (July 18, 2017).... >>

I believe you are right and that this is a major mistake on their part. 

If no one of the core team is following what is being said in this forum, they might be surprised by the results of the vote or by the lack of participation on June 18.

The fact that no one from the core team is here to answer the concerns of citizens or explain the rationale behind some articles of the draft Constitution is a bit frustrating. But, perhaps, they are trying to manage too many aspects of project Asgardia at the same time and they cannot keep up.


Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 13:08 UTC

Overall, I find the rough draft acceptable.

I was surprised to see the use of a Constitutional Monarchy be put into play, but with the structure we already had in the planning stages (multiple ministries and a head of state) it was a logical conclusion.

In any case, the Head of Nation can be limited in power or given power based upon what is decided by the final draft. It's not an absolute monarchy.

I would like to see the age range be a little wider for offices, though. Or at least a median age range based on our population.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 13:56 UTC

@Elwe Thor - Sorry, I did not understand what I wrote incorrectly. English is not my native language, maybe I have something badly translated. Let indicate the moderators. 

About contact developers of the Constitution - I may be wrong, but the situation something reminds me of the Kurt Vonnegut's story, where on the spacecraft of the Mars colonists were two buttons - "Start" and "Stop". The "Start" button launched automatically on the fly, and the button "Stop" was generally not connected to anything - it was just for psychological comfort of the crew. Perhaps this discussion is also for psychological comfort and not taken into account.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 14:09 UTC

@Dmitry Novoseltsev(Asgardian) on 28 May 2017, 1:56 p.m.

Sorry, I did not understand what I wrote incorrectly. English is not my native language, maybe I have something badly translated. Let indicate the moderators. 

Actually, your English is just fine. I found no problem with your English as I am a native English speaker. However, Elwe Thor was being sarcastic with his words. No need to censor the word "answers" with "a-word..." Some have developed a pessimistic view of recent developments with Asgardia.Space - not everyone wishes to bow before a King.

Regarding your ideas on a Direct Democracy, would you have any ideas to implement it? How can it be scalable and stable as it grows in population?

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 14:49 UTC

The head of state (or his commercial entity) is writing the consitution, placing himself and his progeny in control. Nothing to see here, move along.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 14:50 UTC

11. The Head of State enjoys immunity and is granted a lifetime guarantee of personal safety and the safety of his/her property after leaving the role.

There are just to much privilages to the head of state. He is like a God/Dictator by those rules, nobody can do anything against him and he is elected by the former head of state so that means same shit as here on earth, but different spoon to eat the shit they give us. I was really into all this but now as I read this constituon I myself am disapointed.

Everything would be lead by one dude, the head of state... It doesn't look like a free state a future space nation. It just looks like a comunits, fashist, dictatorship by one dude who calls himself a head of the state. He controls the cort, laws, diplomacy, taxes, banks and everything else.... Just wtf?

11. The Head of State may dissolve Parliament. The Prosecutor General may propose the dissolution of Parliament to the Royal Court. If the Royal Court agrees with the arguments made, it may dissolve Parliament in accordance with the law.

Parliament is the only thing citizens have and it could be disolved by the head....

Gor really? Money, the root to all Earth problems...

Taxes for a idea of a space nation? Really...

The National Audit Office comprises the Chairman of the National Audit Office and auditors. The National Audit Office Chairman is appointed for a five year term and removed from post by the Head of State. National Audit Office auditors are appointed by Parliament independently for five year terms. 

Inspection is also controlled by the Head of state..

Article 47. Special procedure for election of a new Head of State If elections for a new Head of State are scheduled within the first five years of adoption of the Constitution, the requirements of Asgardia’s Constitution concerning the candidate for the position of Head of State holding space citizenship for at least five years do not apply.

Who does have the space citizenship as long as 5 years? Nobody.

That just means that Igor can't be replaced in those first 5 years...

The part where people must be older then 40 to actually do political things is also a huge load of shit to protect Igor because most of the Asgardia population is younger then 40 years. 

I understand, you created this and you just want to protect yourself in it but creating a dictatorship where you could be called King and have his own private ,,corporation,, is just not the idea which I signed for, when all this started....

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 14:51 UTC

With the base of the topic tha i was done, this is the data from the votes from Asgardians:

Technocracy
28,70%
Direct democracy
25%
Constitutional monarchy
10%
Parliamentary republic
10%
Other
7,50%
Constitutional republic
5%
Liquid Democracy
3,80%
Democratic Meritoracy
3,80%
Democracy
2,50%
Republic
1%
Federal Republic
1%
Republic
1%


Theres a lot of people who want Tecnocracy or Direct Democracy, it would be good if this as anexed in the final draft as a sugestion.


topic from the poll:

https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/general-discussion-14/topic/what-is-the-type-of-governement-that-you-want-poll-5424/?post=26066#26066


Humberto - ANBR

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 15:27 UTC

Zokaa, ect. - I see the word "communism" makes many incorrect and negative interpretations. Then, please help to find a positive synonym to a definition: "a way of organizing of society, precluding systematic economic or other parasitism of some able-bodied and capable citizens or groups at the expense of other citizens or groups". You can certainly write and so, but too bulky. Need one memorable term.

@ LoreZyra– a few I wrote earlier about the permanent network referendums with weighting factors to each voice. Other ideas yet, will be immediately reported.

Zokaa– 11. I agree, it turns a strange archaic- whether the king and nobles, or the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee with the Politburo. So I would like to see from the developers detailed explanation of each item is what was meant.

.

  Last edited by:  Dmitry Novoseltsev (Asgardian)  on Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 15:27 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 16:49 UTC

A "parliamentary republic" headed with a collegial body is much better than a "constitutional monarchy". 

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 18:07 UTC

@BohZao on 28 May 2017, 2:51 p.m.

I voted Democratic Meritocracy but, after reading Lore Zyra's text, I think I would be quite happy with a Technocracy. 

Actually, there might not be much difference between the two. Meritocracy is based on past achievements and competency whereas Technocracy is based on expertise, experience, and potential future achievements.

  Last edited by:  Andre Ratel (Asgardian)  on Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 18:09 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 18:24 UTC

Estimados hermanos Asgardianos: perdonad por mi visión esceptica sobre los "fundadores de la madre patria", pero no les veo dando explicaciones, ni comentando sugerencias, ¿cuantos han redactado esta constitución? son tan pocos que nadie tiene tiempo para comentar nada? servirá tanto esfuerzo de algunos para que sus sugerencias sean escuchadas? sinceramente creo que todo está cocinado por unos pocos que se están montando una nación a su imagen y semejanza. Nada de lo dicho será tomado en cuenta porque tienen claro lo que quieren hacer. La bandera, himno, saludo.. etc, ya está pensado y elegido por ellos. Nadie se acuerda como fue elegido cabeza de la nación... o le elegías o no podías ser considerado ciudadano, al igual que se quiere hacer con la constitución... Espero que los esfuerzos de algunos de vosotros, sea tomado en consideración y que se refleje en el proyecto de constitución. Buen trabajo y gracias por vuestro esfuerzo.

Google translation

Dear Asgardian brothers: Forgive me for my skeptical view of the "founders of the motherland" but I do not see them giving explanations, nor commenting on suggestions, how many have drafted this constitution? Are so few that nobody has time to comment anything? Will it be so much effort by some to make their suggestions heard? I sincerely believe that everything is cooked by a few who are mounting a nation in its image and likeness. Nothing said will be taken into account because they are clear what they want to do. The flag, hymn, greeting .. etc, is already thought and chosen by them. No one remembers how he was elected head of the nation ... or you chose him or you could not be considered a citizen, just as one wants to do with the constitution ... I hope that the efforts of some of you will be taken into consideration and that Is reflected in the draft constitution. Good work and thank you for your efforts.


Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 19:27 UTC

In chapter 3, article 9, paragraph 10, the following sentence is clearly stated at the end: "The death penalty is prohibited in Asgardia. The creation of prisons is not admissible." According to the article and by that phrase. I ask myself: what will happen to those individuals who do not respect the law located in chapter 3, paragraph 4, g, which says: "(the citizen of Asgardia has) the right to physical integrity and the inviolability of the domicile." Will they be arrested, convicted, expelled or will they go unpunished?

Jun 8, 01 / May 28, 17 21:25 UTC

Hello Asgardians!

 How will an Asgardian citizen contribute with this nation as it is written in the constitution?