Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 20:16 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  

Also could I ask why the constitutional monarchy route was taken over other forms?



Also there is a line about Heads of State havino immunity , does that mean they are shielded from certain legal issues?

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 20:27 UTC

@AllenDeGrey

Good question about immunity. However, Article 32 Paragraph 10 states that, "The  Head  of  State  may  be  removed  from  his/her  position  by  Parliament  in  accordance with the  procedure  set  by the  law  in the  event  of: a) ongoing inability to perform  his/her duties  on health grounds; b)  the  Prosecutor  General  accusing  the  Head  of  State  of  treason  or  other  major  crime, with such accusation confirmed by a  conclusion of the  Royal  Court; c)  the  Prosecutor  General  or  the  Chamber  of  Supreme  Values  accusing  the  Head  of State  of  a  gross  violation  of  Asgardia’s  Constitution,  with  such  accusation  confirmed  by  a conclusion of the  Royal  Court. "

I'm not sure what "immunity" means in the constitution's context, but whatever it is, it doesn't make the Head of State immune to justice. 

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:14 UTC

I have concerns over the Constitutional Monarchy form of government. Aren't we supposed to be past giving certain individuals status like this?  Power corrupts even with good intentions.

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:22 UTC

I also see wording that guarantees citizens the right to practice any religion but there is no specific wording guaranteeing those of us who do not practice any religion the freedom to do so. I know it's probably implied but exact wording would be better in my opinion.

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:23 UTC

Simple grammatical error:

3. Any resident of Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia, as long as he assents in the Declaration, and abides by the Constitution and the legislation of Asgardia.

The word HE should be gender neutral

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:26 UTC

@Papineau

Ohhh... So that's the reason why Asgardia has such a low female-to-male ratio! Hehe

Kidding aside, though: Thanks for pointing that out, I'll also include your observation in the document. 

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:28 UTC

As others have stated, I also have concerns about the Constitutional Monarchy form of government indicated.  At minimum, elections should be required.  No handing down of titles - because that, in itself, seems as if it is against the Laws of Asgardia in relation to treating everyone equally.intentions.

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:32 UTC

I would like to add an introduction to the Constitution to the age of an elected Parliament or a Government from 40 to 65 years, sometimes a maximum of 75 years. I want an opportunity to join the 30-year-old to allow the election of parliament or government for young people

  Last edited by:  Mohamed.m (Asgardian)  on Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 22:19 UTC, edited 3 times in total.

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:44 UTC

My concern lies within Article 32 which deals with the head of state where the following is stated: 

article 32: head of state: 

"subsection 12:
point c) calls elections of members of Parliament in accordance with the Constitution and the law of Asgardia and has the right to dissolve Parliament."

point e) proposes draft laws to Parliament, signs laws adopted by Parliament and returns them without signature with the right to enact them, and has the right to veto laws adopted by Parliament;"

Where are the checks and balances for this not to become a dictatorship from this 'right' in bold text to protect the citizens from an act by a head of state who may invoke either of these for personal gain and undermine the authority of the people?

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:56 UTC

I think this is a bit contradictory.

History is important for the future. Constitutional Monarchy? Royal Court? Isn't this an old way rather than looking into the future like it says when discussing History?

I think we should not have a constitutional monarchy, of course this nation was founded by Igor but we all should be able to choose our representatives. 

History is very important because it let us discover Humanity and where did we come from and jow we got here. 

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 21:57 UTC

The Constitution is violating the Principles defined here: https://asgardia.space/en/page/government

A constitutional monarchy forbids the delegation of power to 12 independent ministries by definition. A (temporary) head of nation is okay for the first efforts and to engage the government but will fail as a monarchy system very quickly. Monarchies are mostly representative instances today, we are a democratic society on the planetary level and should remain one - entirely - on the nation level of asgardia. No single person should - ever - get the "Commander-In-Chief" state at Asgardia. For now, the constitution is not acceptable and requires a lot of work to align to what humanity deserves.

I am not open to listen or say: "His/her royal majesty, head of state of the space nation Asgardia. King/President <insert name>". No space king, please. It's not star wars.

Besides that:

Gor as the name for the Currency sounds not that bad, but why not a unified currency called "Asgardia Credits" or not just soft currencies like "(Asgardian) Silver and (Asgardian) Copper" which have no kind of Name history? Gor sounds more like a klingon name instead of a recognizable currency.

The most used language as the chosen language might easily move the linguistic focus to a language which is alien to a not that much small part of Asgardia, the concept of a "fluid language" might be a good thing, but as longer you think about the consequences as more you will have to prevent it. The language can technically change every few month, based on the new given citizenships. Official languages must also - always - be reflected by current and historical documents, the effort behind that is just resource wasting. The language should be chosen by a vote/referendum instead of statistics.

So far, so good/bad. My notes by the first view. Let me read it more times for a more specialized and connected review.

Edit: One Important Thing: The Constitution should not be accepted by a regular majority. It should be a 2/3 Majority.

  Updated  on Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 22:05 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 22:13 UTC

"9. Asgardia does not engage in politics, and has no place for political parties. But every Asgardian can freely participate in political life on Earth."

Maybe it's because im new here, but I don't get that first sentence. Banning political parties is something I'm completely on board with, but if Asgardia wants a truly fair political system, people will need to be politically informed and involved. Just ignoring things and letting the people in power take care of politics is how the world got in this mess in the first place, and as a result we have a lot of misinformed people who are trying to muscle around what they beleive is right and feel good in doing so. I'd be lying if I said I was super informed on politics myself.

@AquariusEarth That's one hell of an ambitious undertaking. Money may bring problems to the world. but it does more good than one might think. Also if asgardians wanted to go back down to earth, where would they get money to spend down there?

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 22:31 UTC

My concern is with the language of "immorality". It is unclear if this is intended to mean content that is specifically against the supreme values (used the word "immorality" to mean content that is against the supreme values) or of any content that is deemed immoral. If this is intended to mean any content that is deemed immoral, this could be interpreted as one person deciding the morals of another person. Who would be deciding which morals are good and which ones will be rejected? 

Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 22:43 UTC

Hi lena

I have just had a indepth view of the draft Constitution and my feedback is : 

  • > The thing which is bugging me about this Constitution is the spelling errors of the word " referendum". In  places it's spelt "Referenda" however in others it's "referendum" .
  • I know that the Constitution which has been posted for review by all of us a draft, I know.  

  • > In terms of the Asgardian Currency "Gor " :  can I ask will there be a further announcement about the currency in the near future? Like for example:  it's look , the exchange rate of the Asgardian Currency to the main global  currencies . 

  • > to follow up on the above point about the Currency : can I ask : will it be in a physical form or a electronic form ? If it is in a physical form : what will the process if money is found to be forged ( I ask this because  with all the things which go on in the world,  with all the threats,injustice .. etc. There is always someone who would forge fake money for personal financial gain).

  • >  In the draft Constitution it mentioned about man made platforms (Arks) : can I ask :would there be any announcements " down the line" about the Ark's . I will admit my curiosity about it.( What they  would like ,etc.) 

> In terms of "citizenship being revoked " in the Constitution draft . I only have one question : would  a Asgardian citizen be notified that his/her's citizenship is being revoked?

As for the declaration of unity : I gave my feedback on the unity declaration when it was published for discussion by all asgardian's : https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/constitution-132/topic/discussion-of-the-declaration-of-unity.

Regards

Fpitts




Gem 26, 01 / May 18, 17 23:20 UTC

@BinaAssault I agree with your points about immorality.  It is too vague a term.  One's person's or nation's morals are not another's.  It needs definition.  What is immoral in Ireland [e.g. abortions are illegal whatever the reason] is not immoral in England [abortions are legal].  I'm not arguing the point about abortions, it's just that both countries share a border and on that border, what is culturally immoral is merely a matter of whether a person is standing one foot to the left or the right.

Regarding constitutional monarchy, I think we already tried that in England quite some time ago and it led to what was I gather rather a bloody revolution after the King repeatedly dissolved the parliament.  Food for thought.  I do need to hear more about the tax structure and tax levels though.