May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 04:44 UTC

Re: Discussion of the draft Constitution  


Article 24,

3..In order to preserve humanity and Earth’s biodiversity, Asgardia organises and ensures the building of Space Arks, defensive platforms in space to be used in the event of threats to the safety of humanity on Earth and for space tourism in the absence of threats.

How about the collection of   earthly specimen on Biological and Plant ,like : DNA of all the living things, Type Culture and Collection (like ATCC ), Phytochemical  Reference Standard collection and many others like fossils, you name it.


May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 04:49 UTC

@Elanexus(Asgardian) on 27 May 2017, 4:10 a.m.

Actually, further to my previous comments, would it be better (admitidly not easier) to vote almost line by line of the constitution with the options of 'yes' 'no, please edit because ___' and 'no, please remove'
This would give us the real time needed to perfect and understand what we are voting for and allow us to focus piece by piece on what the people actually want.

Aside from lack of knowledge and experience, I don'T see why we can't use a platform like GitHub to make that happen... YOu can easily comment on specific parts of any text without changing the original document... For example, see here: https://github.com/lorezyra/Asgardia.Government/pull/1

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 04:51 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 04:51 UTC

@LoreZyra on 27 May 2017, 4 a.m 

<< (I suspect your browser is not correctly handling the URL properly.) >>

Probably. I am using an old version of Chrome.

<< Let me know if this is better for you? >>

This text is easier to read. Thank you. I will look at it during the weekend and will post my comments on the Which Constitution forum. 


  Last edited by:  Andre Ratel (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 04:55 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: reformatting

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 05:10 UTC

@Ogee Prayogee(Asgardian) on 27 May 2017, 4:44 a.m

<< How about the collection of   earthly specimen on Biological and Plant ,like : DNA of all the living things, Type Culture and Collection (like ATCC ), Phytochemical  Reference Standard collection and many others like fossils, you name it. >>

I think the draft Constitution expresses this but in more general terms. From Article 14, Paragraph 4 (p. 14):

"4. Asgardia creates and stores in orbit and on celestial bodies a Databank of biological materials from Earth."


  Last edited by:  Andre Ratel (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 05:16 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 06:23 UTC

I feel put off by the term "Constitutional monarchy". With our technology and thought power, I belive that the traditional forms of government are out dated. As a collective society we should agree what laws and assignments should be past without a focal point of power. As that has led to Earth's current condition.

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 06:52 UTC

I must say reading over this draft I am very unimpressed. It's far too vague and many sections reference a compulsory implication on laws and ideals that aren't even in place yet.

Furthermore, there are several contradictions within the constitution. One being that there is to be no politics in Asgardia but there is to still be a government (not quite possible). A second, and this is big, it is prohibited to speak negatively of the Supreme values. This is undermining the ability to develop a government's values and more importantly it undermines the basic human right of the freedom of speech.

There are many more issues that i see others have voices their opinions of and i sincerely hope we can develop this draft much more in order to produce a fair constitution for what I hope to be a very successful nation.

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 08:44 UTC

i'm shocked. Constitutional monarchy and all the unbalanced power in one person in Asgardia? With no limited power? Sorry but no. The most people don't want the same problems like in the past or in other countrys right now. All in the constitution dealing with the gov is like "explain the rights, tell that the head of nation can overrule it without a problem"... I'm very disappointed about it.

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 11:27 UTC

At the moment Asgardia needs an official document that defines its government. Because government is all that will be apparent on the face of the earth. Your citizens will not be sent into space, they will continue to live in our countries of origin. Where every country already has a constitution, which we respect. "You can not serve two masters." The consequences have already been pointed out. Then make a constitution that defines the government, that is enough.

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 13:57 UTC

There should be an article at the end of the document, in Chapter 10. 

"Article x. Splinter provisions

Physical battles in space are more deadly than on Earth (even a tiny hole in a shuttle can lead to depressurisation). A group of people may request recognition independence from Asgardia and recognition as a nation by Asgardia, provided that such motion is supported by a majority in a people's referendum, and that the group signs a treaty of non-agression with Asgardia. This will help minimise eventual physical damages and armed revolutions. "

  Last edited by:  John Skieswanne (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 14:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 14:22 UTC

Continuing the theme, I would like to express an opinion on the question of interest almost all - about taxes. 

It is rather difficult. Among the goals of Asgardia the declared equality of citizens. Actually, quite convincingly statistically proven (for example here: https://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/resources/the-spirit-level) that a society is the less suffers from various vices and even more safely than less inequality, and the closer it is to real communism. However, the problem of Asgardia is the source of considerable initial inequality of its citizens. What would be fair taxation, for example, a successful lawyer from Western Europe and the mother of many children from Central Africa? Especially if the latter gets a natural labor pay in the form of a sack of potatoes. 

Obviously, the fixed amount is a mockery of the greater part of the citizens, because the bulk of the population generally has a much lower income level than the so-called "Golden billion". Flat tax scale would be less mockery, because at low levels of income is important even small amount. Progressive scale of taxation, particularly with a large multiplying factor, by contrast, is a mockery already over wealthy citizens – they do not have to sponsor all the others, especially because they are usually more qualified and are directly involved in the provision of space activities. Residence rights in more silt less economically prosperous environment – usually not his fault and not his credit, that's a given for this task. 

Somewhere in the discussion at the forum was the proposal to introduce a tax only for residents of the localities of Asgardia. Consider this a bad idea – first of all, now no localities is actually there, and secondly, is discrimination based on place of residence – these people are also not obligated to sponsor all the others.

I see the following solution to the problem. 

To the Constitution needs to be included about the following thesis: "The taxes of Asgardia charged solely only with incomes of Asgardian citizens, derived from their activities in the interests of Asgardia and using its infrastructure".

To clarify.

People that support Asgardia, obviously, in any case, plan to engage in activities related to the fulfillment of its tasks. Given the task of preventing space threats, one of the directions are aimed at detecting anomalies in large data (asteroids, space debris, instability of solar activity, fires, etc.) – those are bad to solve modern computers and even artificial neural networks, but easily solved by people, starting from preschool age. To participate in such projects Asgardia only need access to the Internet and computer technology. Such programs already operate on a voluntary basis. Another direction is the participation in distributed computing using systems like BOINC. Third – physically distributed temporary creative groups to address current scientific, engineering and other tasks. In this case, the scale of the tax may be flat, a percentage transferred to the budget of Asgardia remuneration from citizens for the performance of such tasks. 

With regard to citizens working on future production or other enterprises, for example, for the production and maintenance of aerospace equipment, owned by Asgardia, as the main place of work – they have to pass the same tax rate, but their jobs, by definition, are high paid by virtue of required qualification.

 These moments are determined of separate legal acts after the adoption of the Constitution.

I note the problem.

 Such a model will be effective in a rapidly growing economy Asgardia and ineffective – at stagnating. From the outset, therefore requires the participation of Asgardia in large-scale, high budget projects for external customers – existing states or big companies of the Earth. 

This is a question for the founders.

  Last edited by:  Dmitry Novoseltsev (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 14:24 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 14:53 UTC

This taxation mechanism will be similar not so much to collect mandatory donations or membership fees, more characteristic of sects, but on the principle of operation of crowdfunding platforms such as Boomstarter (in Russia). They provide the possibility of obtaining funds for a commission fee. Every citizen performing work on the order of Asgardia and using its technical and other means, primarily for his/her own – but it also adds to the budget of Asgardia. I believe such a model will not cause a negative attitude from anyone.

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 17:15 UTC

Now an Official Draft of the constitution has been officialized... and I fear for the political system proposed... We have the chance to propose another form of government, but the proposed system is the same among the rest... To make the head of state inherit the government from his father, is where lies innequality and tiranny. Another draft was being developed which would predict 5 powers, the common 3 plus the cientific power and civic power. The official draft, predicts people to vote for a political class that will take their destiny for them... Doesn't it sound similar to the other countries of the world ? I was thinking of a way to improve the rights and political participation of asgardia, but i run out of time... I fear that this draft to be aproved, and the freedom we all want, remains just as an utopical dream... Let's think of another system... Do not vote for this current official draft. Please give me your opinions, in favor or against this draft !!

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 17:15 UTC

Now an Official Draft of the constitution has been officialized... and I fear for the political system proposed... We have the chance to propose another form of government, but the proposed system is the same among the rest... To make the head of state inherit the government from his father, is where lies innequality and tiranny. Another draft was being developed which would predict 5 powers, the common 3 plus the cientific power and civic power. The official draft, predicts people to vote for a political class that will take their destiny for them... Doesn't it sound similar to the other countries of the world ? I was thinking of a way to improve the rights and political participation of asgardia, but i run out of time... I fear that this draft to be aproved, and the freedom we all want, remains just as an utopical dream... Let's think of another system... Do not vote for this current official draft. Please give me your opinions, in favor or against this draft !!

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 18:10 UTC

@Andre Ratel(Asgardian) on 26 May 2017, 2:10 a.m.

A second draft from the core team?

Could someone from the core team of project Asgardia informs us if they intend to submit a second draft of the Constitution before June 18? Or have they decided that the vote will take place anyway on the first draft and that a modified text will be proposed only if the first has been rejected?

(If each draft has to be translated into all 13 official languages, the iterative process is bound to be slow.) 

I seriously doubt we will see anything (2nd/3rd/etc) new before Asgard 1, 0001 (July 18, 2017)....

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 18:48 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 18:41 UTC

  1. Suggestions:- Article 16/3 When voting is done then soft copy should be published to community via proper channel like individual mail by which they should know that vote has gone their favorite candidate.
  2. Chapter 1 :- Add this word in Preamble "FRATERNITY": This refers to a feeling of brotherhood &amp; a  sense of belonging with the country among its people. It embraces  psychological as well as territorial dimensions of National Integration.  It leaves no room for regionalism, Communism, caste-ism etc. which  hinders the Unity of the State.
  Last edited by:  Nikhil Chaudhary (Asgardian)  on May 27, 17 / Can 07, 01 18:50 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time