Leo 07, 01 / Jun 24, 17 20:21 UTC

Re: **Discussion** on Asgardia Constitution  

Same here

Leo 08, 01 / Jun 25, 17 17:29 UTC

Deleted

  Last edited by:  Matt Woods (Asgardian)  on Leo 08, 01 / Jun 25, 17 17:35 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Leo 08, 01 / Jun 25, 17 17:35 UTC

This is my review of the "official draft" of the Constitution:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cOtSi27Keanl5xQ_1mmgCMsOGlGUrgqc-y5rrofT-Ec/pub

please don't go through the original link I posted in another comment

Leo 16, 01 / Jul 3, 17 04:34 UTC

I really don't care what they want to call it. If they want people to follow it, they should listen to the people.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Leo 16, 01 / Jul 3, 17 04:39 UTC, edited 2 times in total.

Leo 16, 01 / Jul 3, 17 04:38 UTC

Wonder what became of Bucky (https://asgardia.space/en/forum/member/profile/755558/)? Such entertainment... Empire will miss you

Leo 16, 01 / Jul 3, 17 08:54 UTC

Fellow Asgardian citizens- To those hoping Supreme Leader Ashurbeyli makes an official announcement that includes EVERY Asgardian citizen regarding the changes to the constitution since it was able to be agreed upon, voting on it, those who think all citizens should be notified about dates that don't change in regard to the constitution,  and finally those who agree the method of the constitution agreement collection as well as the leadership polling should be overhauled in favor of a verifiable and trustworthy system, I saw a petition and got inspired to write the following comment which is linked below about a possible solution for all this.. We need to have solidarity on all of this and need reassurance for the various unorganized fears to be quelled in an organized manner in accordance with the spirit that encompasses Asgardia and its citizens! :

    "The entire situation may very well be a sort of a beta test for the near future. Maybe a test launch of how to best go about this groundbreaking situation and make sure the bugs are ironed out before a lot more finances get invested. We should stay united and wait to see how things progress. Maybe we could form an unofficial committee tasked with keep an eye on everything official we can locate and inform the other citizens should things not go proper. Regardless of who we are or where were from, we all share the common interest of wanting to make a difference by starting a new sort of life in space and furthering humanity. We need to stand united first and foremost. I'm not saying don't sign this petition, because I believe in individual thoughts and opinions. I do suggest we all accept the constitution and if you're worried, sign the petition as well and make your voice heard here. This needs to get off the ground. If things go well, it'll happen faster.. If things seem like they're going south, we stand together and I'm sure people will be lining up to help. If we are to be a country, our message to the world has to be unity. A surprising amount of people believe this is some sort of cult with the aim at starting a secret and separate branch of humanity and/or that this whole thing isn't real. We must stand together and do our part. Most of all, we have to believe. Believe in the reality of Asgardia and act accordingly to the point where no one can doubt its validity. We must be united in this effort!

      Once said official 'unofficial' committee is formed, the group would keep evidence of all official document changes, keep track of media events and all that is stated, etc. The committee could, say, find a lawyer (preferably a fellow Asgardian) and make sure were covered legally in case the issues aren't directly addressed to each and every  citizen, and hopefully the lawyer could make sure the citizens located  in other planet-side countries are protected by either national or  international law. If it had to go to court, surely benefactors across the world would assist us with legal fees should something this major have a need to become mainstream world news. We must be patient and show  our firm solidarity here and ensure both the safety of our future as  people of Earth and the safety of our future as citizens of Asgardia and the world view of us. I am positive that once we have this committee  formed and running, that we can inform every citizen of Asgardia what we know, what we have learned, and that we have informed our Supreme Leader Ashurbeyli of all of this and await a formal response to all. Once the committee reaches that point, we wait and then contact every citizen once again and find a really good way to put our reaction to the action or inaction of our leadership to a real vote. With advice from previously mentioned lawyers of course.

    I,  personally, very much hope any of the issues will be quelled long before it has to come down to anything so major. I hope that you all agree with me and decide to stand for Asgardia. Since its been a while and I haven't seen a lot of talk of formal organization on these message boards, aside from petitions and message boards that could probably  easily be edited or manipulated, I will offer my e-mail address at the end of this post or you can find me and send a message with contact info, and if you're an Asgardian citizen your Asgardian ID number, through Facebook and Twitter. I will reply with information on who else  is with us and once there are at least ten of us in total we can figure  out a way to best get started and discuss what we know so far. We can  start a new official 'unofficial' committee thread on the message board  as well and announce our actions and the results of our meetings, meeting dates, etc. to others there until someone has a way to obtain a complete citizen list and a means of contact. I am willing to do what it takes to unite citizens on both sides of this argument in a fair and logical manner for solidarity of the future of Asgardia. Message me and help out. We all have a responsibility to do our part! I hope to hear from you soon! This has an amazing potential and I know that we can all stand together and assure everything about Asgardia stays alive and just as promised from the start if not more!


-Email: tekzer0@protonmail.com

-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AaronCorbitt

-Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/tekzer0

*On  the latter two, be sure to friend or add me! In the message dont forget  your contact information, Asgardian ID number, and anything else you wanna add! And no worries, I will not share any of your information whatsoever with anyone without prior permission and notice (and it'd only be something the committee has voted on prior). Since so few citizens have agreed let alone regularly visit the site, I will wait as long as it takes to get this going. Time is of the essence due to everything that is supposed to take place by years end. Thanks for taking the time to read!"

Originally typed as a reply to the petition linked below on Asgardia 16, 0001 / July 3, 2017

From: https://asgardia.space/en/petitions/6493-the-voting-system-is-a-fraud-cancel-the-voting-on-the-consitution/

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 04:17 UTC

I believe that the Constitution should use clear wording against discrimination based on sexual orientation and/or sexual identity. I believe we must take advantage of this unique opportunity and prevent misinterpretations from happening in the future.

This is necessary because "unclear or vague" wording in the Constitution leaves a void which could be exploited to try and cease people's rights and freedoms.

All of us are aware of the unfair treatment LGBT people receive in many countries in the world, to say the least, in some of them people accused of homosexuality are flogged or killed publicly.

I agree, there should be no special treatments or rights to anyone, but if you check the current version, you'll notice some ambiguous sentences in important parts concerning family, equality and fundamental rights. These ambiguities need to be corrected and there must be a clear statement against any kind of discrimination. Notice that these corrections don't harm or diminish any right or freedom of heterosexual people, nor grant any kind of special treatment to LGBTs, they only secure fair treatment and equality.

I wrote some comments and suggestions about these parts in a separate document. Here you are the link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0fTmPWqvX53eEV6MkhSdUxGSEk


Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 12:53 UTC

It has been my experience that laws do not prevent people from doing bad things. It just assigns penalties to doing those bad things that must, then, be enforced by someone.

Laws will not prevent bigotry, prejudice, authoritarianism or corruption. Citizens will, though vigilance and demonstrations of outrage.

SWB

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 16:11 UTC

Citizens won't have to demonstrate outrage of the power of the nation is distributed among it's people, and the values of the nation are shared and upheld by everyone. It's worth overhauling the constitutional preconditions to citizenship, once re-drafted, to ensure all citizens truly do believe in, and want to build the nation were trying to build, a vast contrast from the way most nations are run now, in a spiral of chaos and division. We must do this right, and we must do this quickly, but first and foremost, it must be done the correct way.

  Last edited by:  Kito Gavin (Asgardian)  on Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 18:37 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OHQ

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 16:30 UTC

That is very well said, Phantom. It is, in fact, the reason I find myself unable to accept the current Constitution because if I did I would be lying.

I cannot accept it if my intention is to later change it. That is dishonest and subversive and behavior in which I want to have no part. Thus, I simply wish to state that I cannot abide by it and hope, maybe, at some mystical point in the future, it will change to something I can agree to follow.

NIA

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 16:40 UTC

@Phicksur
Totally agree.

It's amusing to see how much asgardians accepted the current Constitutional draft "in the hope it can be changed later (but not "that much later")". Pretty sure most doesn't understand the meaning of "foundation" word, and how hard is to change an already established Constitution.
I even read someone, even accepting, believes this is a "beta test"... lol... oh... he is five posts above. :-D

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 16:43 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 16:50 UTC

They can call it constitution all they want but this is not finished, serious document. If UN ever takes this seriously I'm gonna lose hope for this project. UN should reject such a rough rushed  sketch for our own good. Doesn't even matter who agrees and disagrees with certain parts of it. It just lacks 90% of the information or clarification it needs to mean anything.

Right now I'm wondering if I should accept constitution just to be able to vote and 2 main questions come to mind:

1. Will this document be able to somehow hurt me if Asgardia goes to full shit? Can't make my mind up about this one since day one. x.x

2. How hard will it be to change constitution later?

Even bigger problem is that all people who happily vote for this joke are gonna just as happily vote for some random folks in elections now which will just magnify the amount of unprofessialism and chaos here while all the reasonable people back up. That is gonna go down like an avalanche that starts with one tiny pebble and ends up being massive and deadlly.


Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 17:12 UTC

@Kristina Gasparian
Totally agree.

Let me ask you a question: have you seen any "new decree" (maybe n. 7) which stated the results of the voting procedure?
I'm asking that as I'm seeing that "things" from the Constitutional draft are being used into many (I presume) official services and pages of the website (e.g. Solar currency is cited into FAQs also as related to the business asgardia.com site).

As far as I can say, having talked to persons who knows the legal matter, as far as you won't go onto the space colony, so physically into "Asgardia's territory", this Constitutional draft, as well as all decrees, as well as any law enacted in the future, will be not binding for you nor you'll have any consequences, disregarding them.
As soon as all is done into "Asgardia's noosphere" (so, forum, website, Facebook's/Twitter/whatever other channel), these are "internal rules" only, like the Code of Conduct. They can, at most, "ban" you.

Answering to your second question, for the best I know, changing an approved and enacted Constitution is a terrible burden, far more terrible as it have been the (circus like) voting procedure to "accept" it: you'll discover that it will be far easier to ask Mr. Cook to resign from Apple Inc. CEO role and give you the reins of the company by simple asking. ;-)

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 17:19 UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: typo

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 17:43 UTC

I think I will just accept this nonsense and vote for people I see most fit for changing things in the future and if anything goes way too wrong I can resign at any time... Would be a shame tho but we can't just sit and do nothing.

Leo 20, 01 / Jul 7, 17 18:17 UTC

Quoteth Kristina the not Mediocre:

They can call it constitution all they want but this is not finished, serious document. If UN ever takes this seriously I'm gonna lose hope for this project. UN should reject such a rough rushed  sketch for our own good. Doesn't even matter who agrees and disagrees with certain parts of it. It just lacks 90% of the information or clarification it needs to mean anything.

Right now I'm wondering if I should accept constitution just to be able to vote and 2 main questions come to mind:

1. Will this document be able to somehow hurt me if Asgardia goes to full shit? Can't make my mind up about this one since day one. x.x

2. How hard will it be to change constitution later?

Even bigger problem is that all people who happily vote for this joke are gonna just as happily vote for some random folks in elections now which will just magnify the amount of unprofessialism and chaos here while all the reasonable people back up. That is gonna go down like an avalanche that starts with one tiny pebble and ends up being massive and deadlly.

Respondeth Phicksur the Moderately Okay:

Depending on where you are, you can almost always be sued. Whether or not they might win is another matter entirely. I have been in court cases that should have been a slam dunk only to catch the judge on a bad day and have them do a complete reversal because they didn't like how I was dressed. Personally, with a wife and two kids and a house and lots of cool stuff I really don't want to even risk the life I've been working hard to build for the last 10 years on MAYBE making things better.

CED