Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...

Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...  

  By: LeoBrazil(Asgardian) on 10 January 2017, 3:53 p.m.

Hi, Asgardians...

Please, WRITE DOWN THE 10 MOST IMPORTANT DUTIES AND LIABILITIES ASGARDIANS SHOULD FOLLOW BY LAW, EXPRESSED AND ENSURED INSIDE THE CONSTITUTION.

In my point of view, they should be (more or less):

  • Obligation to respect;

  • Obligation not to accept corruption;

  • Obligation to assist in the development of Asgardia;

  • Obligation not to deprive or violate the assets of Asgardia;

  • Obligation not to violate the Asgardian's laws;

  • Obligation not to betray or violate the secrets of Asgardia;

  • Obligation to be peaceful;

  • Obligation not to commit crimes in the name of Asgardia;

  • Obligation to protect Asgardia and its citizens;

  • Obligation to maintain the order, the dignity, the respect and the progress.

How about you? Which do you think they should be?

Greetings,

Leonardo.


  Last edited by:  Oriane Kaesmann (Global Admin)  on 16 January 2017, 3:57 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: Jason Rainbow(Global Mod) on 10 January 2017, 4:11 p.m.

This post has been moved from [... General / General Discussion ] to [... Ministry of Justice / Constitution ]

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: Brandon7(Asgardian) on 10 January 2017, 6:53 p.m.

I think you have the concept of a constitution backwards. It is not meant to enforce laws, it is meant to protect the people from unjust treatment!

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: LeoBrazil(Asgardian) on 11 January 2017, 12:02 p.m.

Not necessarily, Brandon. In fact, any Constitution must be a very well balance between rights and obligations. The Constitution should serve as a basis for regulating other internal laws.

On the other hand, a Constitution that only provides the defense of its citizens will always be weak, incomplete and inappropriate, running the risk of failure - and always incurring and calling new Reforming Constituent Powers.

Greetings,

Leonardo.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: markjcooke(Asgardian) on 11 January 2017, 9:05 p.m.

I'm of the opinion that creating such 'obligations' runs a great risk of tyranny of enforcement... will we have to worry about the department of Peace and Respect coming to our apartment should one of our family becomes a little loud? And who decides what is the criminal threshold of not 'protecting' Asgardia enough?

Some of these items on the list one would to be expected by a lawful citizenry... after all wanton destruction is a crime in most places as is 'violating the law'. As for peace, respect, order, dignity and so on, these will develop with the norms and culture of our new nation and the 'norms' will change over time.

To me such statements would best be served in a vision statement as aspirations not codified constitutional law.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: LeoBrazil(Asgardian) on 11 January 2017, 11:25 p.m.

Dear, Asgardians...

In short words, a good and civilized citizen does NOT fear the law. He serves as an example!

Moreover, in a Democratic place, every decision is (and always should be!) made through the majority decision.

What I did was...I just listed 10 possible examples - nothing more! So, if you want to participate, it's okay! If you don't want..., it's okay too.

Greetings,

Leonardo.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: markjcooke(Asgardian) on 12 January 2017, 2:01 a.m.

"a good and civilized citizen does NOT fear the law. He serves as an example" fair enough but he should beware those who choose to interpret law and bend it to their will. The best intentions never go unpunished and what you codify today with the best intentions may someday be enforced as 'tribal' law or worse.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: LeoBrazil(Asgardian) on 12 January 2017, 11:40 a.m.

That's why Democracy exists...to vote and to choose through the majority (NOT THE MINORITY NOR THE TYRANNY!).

*We MUST always respect the minority...but THE TYRANNY we MUST always rebuke and fight.

Finally, I believe that every law should be fair, honest and very clear (like a Crystal). Laws should leave NO room for doubts or dubious and illegal interpretations - outside their scope.

Greetings,

Leonardo.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important DUTIES and LIABILITIES Asgardians MUST FOLLOW...  

  By: EyeR(Asgardian) on 14 January 2017, 3:11 a.m.

The way I see it, is there's only one important "duty" or "liability" that any Asgardian should follow - and that's the betterment of self.

They have an obligation to themselves to be better than themselves. For there is no other measure with which you should compare. By steadily improving upon this, everything else should follow.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...  

  By: Ruben Huguet(Asgardian) on 16 January 2017, 5:17 p.m.

What a Constitution must clear out, as I see it, is the frame that fences the space laws can move according every different social situation. Sometimes laws must be adapted to match a changing reality. Internet or Asgardia themselves are pretty good examples how laws need to evolve to adapt to the changes that human non-conformist imagination generate.

To me, what really matter is that those ten points assure that laws provide justice, and equal treat to every single being. Only in a place where equality is the norm, justice will be the rule. That involves that no gender or spice categories can be used, and we all should be raised understanding it.

-1. Constant reach of social equality.

-2. Access to education. Understanding education as a self-improvement process, not necessarily what nowadays understand as education.

-3. All essential resources (energy, food, water, health care) will be property of all Asgardia nationals, and managed to provide to all of them equally.

-4. Right to a decent, adequate living space.

-5. Every Asgardian has the right to free speech, as far as it is done in a respectful way without harm of any being.

-6. Asgardians will promote respect between minorities. Since every being is different to each other, which means every being is a minority.

-7. Knowledge and social development are a common wealth and understood as the major factor of growth.

-8. Every being is right to praise any god they believe in, if they do so. But they must respect other beliefs.

-9. Any being privacy and preferences must be respected and never violated.

-10. Asgardia efforts must be always directed to give beings the chance to fulfil their personal growth.

-11. Anyone who embraces Asgardia's principles can be Asgardian, no matter where they come from.

I've used beings, I don't know if correctly, because as an open minded and a pro-science society we could contemplate the fact that other forms of life can be found and there's a chance they would like to become Asgardians.

For the same reason I believe that gender labels must be removed. If we believe we are all people, and we are all equal, gender tags are not reasonable.

Some points might be a bit open because I believe that there must be a very thoughtful design of the educational/self-improving system. This is, to me, the key to bring grown ups who care about being happy self-improving and challenging themselves just for the sake of beating their own limits and nothing else.

Well, that was a quick thought on it. Probably, the best way to do it is with people, debating and challenging arguments to either discard them or to make them stronger.


  Last edited by:  Ruben Huguet (Asgardian)  on 16 January 2017, 5:23 p.m., edited 2 times in total.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...  

  By: LeoBrazil(Asgardian) on 17 January 2017, 1:09 p.m.

Perfect, Ruben.

I really enjoyed your 10 points. Certainly, this is the way to go...

Great job,

Leonardo.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...  

  By: Dajin(Asgardian) on 18 January 2017, 7:21 p.m.

Well said Ruben,

Along with your suggestion for the right to education as a way to improve one's own understanding and betterment, I would tie that into EyeR's point about bettering one's self as a primary goal of any sentient being.

To the same end, each sentient being should attempt to aid in the betterment of any and all other beings that they come into contact with. The reason being, if others are empowered and we collectively move forward, the good of the entire community is improved, thus helping one's self further their own self-understanding and power.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...  

  By: Lance(Asgardian) on 18 January 2017, 9:07 p.m.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

First and foremost a constitution should not be a social agenda. It must be mailable enough to last multiple generations and not impact the flavor of one generation. Thus it is the reason the constitution MUST be chains to limit the power of government and political motivations. A majority rule without the protections of individual rights leads to tyranny and oppression. Example: If a policy is created to have your way with women every 3rd Friday of the month, and the women must consent based on "Democracy" (Majority rule). Then there is nothing protecting the women of that civilization from such grotesque tyranny. Individual rights like a citizens Bill of Rights should be created prior to any constitution. Then for a more harmonious populace, build a constitution around the citizens Bill of Rights.

A constitution should be rules for government, not for people. Legislation will be created for people, through the government by consent of the people. If you truly want a free and equal society. Otherwise you will be oppressing people based on what a group of individuals deem as right. I may think homosexuality is wrong, does that give the majority a right to outlaw homosexuality? Without a citizens Bill of Rights, and being a pure democracy is an ignorant form of governance, with only a constitution as a guide.

Re: Place (write down) the 10 most important duties and liabilities Asgardians must follow...  

  By: Ruben Huguet(Asgardian) on 19 January 2017, 11:07 a.m.

Looking at constitutions from different countries I've noticed that the most individual-protective ones are quite short. In fact, the more equal is the country, the shorter is its constitution. There might be some exceptions, but after checking several of them and reading a few articles about the topic, that's what I found.

The constitutions of Norway, Sweden, Finland, Iceland (considered some of the most equal countries in the world) move around 100 articles. Whereas poorer countries have longer constitutions.

There is also a relation between equality and complexity of the articles. The more equal the country is the plainer and easier to understand their constitutions are. And the poorer the country, the more intrincated the articles and their interpretations are.

So, maybe 10 points is a bit too short, but more than 100/120 articles means whoever is building up this constitution have many conflicts in their interests. It means not all of them paddle in the same direction, but only debating, and searching for common places we'll have a society that drives to the bettering of everyone.

I would also like to underline, remark, highlight that the base of an equal society starts with education and learning. Education at home, learning at learning centres. I don't want to use school. Schools have a very "industrial" connotation in our minds nowadays. And the industrial revolution is reaching its end and that needs to be rethought.

And I would like to thank to the ones who have said they liked my contribution, but also to the ones who disagree and express themselves in a polite and constructive way. Only debating we'll get to the best constitution possible. It'll never be perfect, and we probably must put in there an article that allows people change the constitution if we all agree it needs to be changed.


  Last edited by:  Ruben Huguet (Asgardian)  on 19 January 2017, 11:10 a.m., edited 1 time in total.