Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:00 UTC

Re: Voting Regulations  

As a matter of fact, this (so called) "voting procedure" is so strange that most of the users will choose to "accept the Constitution" nothig more than to find out if it will be possible to vote after that, too late discovering that they already did it (and, worth remembering, it's impossible to change our vote, after having "expressed" it).

One would expect two boxes ("yes" and "no") and a "Vote" button, but things have been arranged so that to "capture" the most possible number of (positive) votes, even if in this bad way: that's the Asgardia we're facing now, the one who needs to lie you to grab your vote, that's the Asgardia we'll have to expect for the future.

They're also acting directly against the Voting Regulations:

  1. Art.1 expressly states that "Voting will take place over the course of a 24-hour period on 1st Asgard (18th June 2017) (...)"
  2. Art.4 expressly states that "(...) Voters will have to choose “yes” or “no” in response to the question: “Do you adopt the Declaration of Unity/the Constitution of Asgardia?
  3. Art.5 expressly states that "(...) In the case of disagreement with the Declaration of Unity of Asgardia and the Constitution of Asgardia, the individual will remain on the second level of verication."

Now, I'm sure all can see that yesterday wasn't "18th june 2017" nor "1st Asgard", the same as all can see there are no "yes or no" choices to select and, finally, absolutely no way to explicitly express "disagreement".

Thus these elections MUST BE DECLARED NULL (or "illegal", as you prefer) as they're expressly against the 3rd Decree by Head of Nation.

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:01 UTC

Well, the voting appears to be what could be best described as a clusterf***k.

First, there is the North Korean inspired voting system - "You can vote, as long as you vote fo the single option we give you." Then, from what I can ascertain from Facebook comments, it seems that it doesn't matter if the accept box is checked or not. As soon as submit is hit, it is counted as a vote for the constitution.

In short, the process has no validity at all.

There is also a particularly lame justification doing the rounds from the admins. It is along the lines of: "You can't be granted citizenship to a country if you do not agree with the constitution." This is true, except for one small detail - Asgardia is not a country...yet. To become a country, 50% of the people that have signed up have to vote in favour.

IMHO, the only way this process can be salvaged is to scrap this vote, run a genuine consultation process and set a vote for a later date.

A petition perhaps?

  Updated  on Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:03 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Typo

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:15 UTC

These votes must be cancelled OR they have to clearly state that each and every Decree have no meaning nor value at all.

About the "petition" (which is a broken process still), I wrote something here.

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:17 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:26 UTC

Hi guys!

Can somebody point me to those voting regulations? I'm a bit lost here...

Thanks in advance.


My apologies. Now i see them described on the second page of the topic.

EDIT.2: And found the document.

  Last edited by:  Pawel Werema (Asgardian)  on Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 13:42 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 14:08 UTC

I think each country should have at least one representative in the parliaments so they can reflect the citizens opinions in each country  and needs and can meet with them easily and wider to listen to all asgardia citizens ideas and discuss it in the parliament

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 14:31 UTC

Hi @Naiimak
Despite what you wrote is a little OT in this thread (but feel free to use the Constitution's section to open topics on that), I remember that there are many ways to choose how much representatives-per-country have to be elected in the Parliament, so that they can be "really representative". In my country, for example, representatives are elected on a proportional basis of policy elections' results and regions' population, granting a minimum number of them so no region will be excluded despite the elections' results.

For Asgardia, keeping in count what I wrote above, Parliament's representatives "should" be elected on "subscription by country" proportional basis... but our Head of State preferred to do it "by language". I can't agree as, if the "by country" can be an objective method, to be sure that the selected language is true should require further inspections (which are not that easy to do): as a matter of fact, it have been noted that, as the "by common agreement" language is English, many non-english speakers are not present here in the forum.
This have been correctly called "language barrier" and will lead to a predominance of english-speakers (and english "citizens": so UK, USA, Australia and so on, basically the countries where people is english motherlanguage) over the "silent majority" of the others (nearly 70% of non-english motherlanguage ones).

As I told, this is off topic here, so I'll look forward to give further opinions into a topic you would kindly open, thank you.

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 14:33 UTC

@markjcooke +1
I can only agree, even if sad.

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 18:58 UTC

The decision stated in decree 6 is purely technical: to not overload servers https://asgardia.space/en/page/decrees/decree006

on the basis of articles 43 and 46 , the decree n°6 is perfectly in line with the constitution

"Article 43. Quorum for Adoption of the Constitution
Asgardia’s Constitution shall be adopted if, on the date of the vote, more than half
of the total number of Asgardian citizens voted in favour and, for the adoption
of the first Constitution, the number of persons pursuant to Article 42 of this
Constitution." meaning that the constitution is not yet adopted

"Article 46. Special rights of the Head of Nation before the election of the
Parliament and the formation of the Government
In the absence of Asgardia’s laws and for the purposes of implementing the
provisions of the Constitution before the election of the Parliament and the
formation of the first Government, the Head of Nation shall issue necessary
decrees that will remain in force until respective laws are adopted." - meaning that till the adoption, decrees are legitimate

hope this helps!

Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 21:33 UTC

Thanks, @soikiro, to have pointed out my first point have been superseded by (mostly unknown) Decree N6 but... and my remaining points?
As far as I can read (and, hopefully, understand) Decree N6 didn't invalidate Decree N3.

Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 04:02 UTC

I think the fact that they would like you to agreeing to the constitution when signing in is to make sure the citizens can vote. Official voting is on the 18th which is when we decided to remain as an asgardian or not. Right now is allowing us to discuss among all the citizens. That's what I am thinking, but let me know if this make sense. Or need more detail of what I'm thinking. Thank you! 

Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 04:43 UTC

@Dchen on 16 June 2017, 4:02 a.m.

Actually, per Decree 6, the official voting has already begun. The is due to the strong suggestion I made to the LEGAL team that 24 hours was insufficient to collect all the votes. I suggested five days. It appears they took my suggestion to heart... So, if you have voted already, it will be counted as an official vote by the end of Asgard 1, 0001.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 14:10 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: added reference to the post where I suggested 5 days for voting

Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 10:21 UTC

@shanewatt @Jason Rainbow

With the utmost respect, it is very troubling that Asgardia is imposing a Yes vote for a draft Constitution and imposing citizenship expulsion for not complying. Unfortunately,  your comparison to an established country's immigration process and constitution is, simply stated, in no way applicable.

I can certainly understand that this whole affair is a work in progress, except this has much broader implications than standard administrative delays can take responsibility. And although I take it these regulations could be changed but given I've only an insufficient two days to take advantage of this process—I've only just registered—the penalties would remain retroactive and would prevent me from participating further to enact any future changes. Hopefully you can plainly see the conflicting predicament this creates. Also consider less informed citizens through no fault of their own because this isn't disclosed when registering.

As for your comparison to established immigration policies, that would require all citizens to study and inform themselves of the Constitution before proceeding—we cannot be offered that opportunity as it is a working draft. In that case, agreement is acceptance of an established, adjudicated document ratified by an established citizenry. No such conditions currently exists with Asgardia.

Aside from forcing citizens to vote Yes on a draft Constitution, what remedies can you offer for these critical conflicts?

  Last edited by:  Travin McKain (Asgardian)  on Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 10:41 UTC, Total number of edits: 9 times

Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 12:07 UTC

(...) So, if you have voted already, it will be counted as an official vote by the end of Asgard 1, 0001.

You should have to be very clear on this, @LoreZyra, as I'm seeing people still believing this is "only a pre-vote" with less than a value other than to access the "real vote" at 18 june (enough people to made me doubt I misunderstood Decree N6's contents): better to spread the notice that "if you accepted the Constitution, it will be counted as an official vote: it means you've already voted". Am I wrong?

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 12:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: formatting

Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 13:52 UTC

@elwe thor i will open a topic now and i need your help you and others for support

Jun 16, 17 / Can 27, 01 14:01 UTC

@Elwe Thor on 16 June 2017, 12:07 p.m.

You are correct. If you have voted, then you have already cast your official vote. There will be no other official vote. What we are doing now is not a pre-vote session. This much was explained in the HK Conference liveStream.