Cap 25, 00 / Dec 26, 16 22:12 UTC

High Crimes  

Personally I think High crimes like murder and rape etc.. should call for an expulsion from citizenship and/or if we are in space at the time to be sent back to Earth rather than an imprisonment. No appeals! But only after a fair an extensive trial with unanimous verdict.

Cap 25, 00 / Dec 26, 16 22:18 UTC

If something happens, best is to say it to the closest responsible people.

Grtz, Dirk.

  Last edited by:  Dirk Baeyens (Asgardian)  on Cap 25, 00 / Dec 26, 16 22:18 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Cap 26, 00 / Dec 27, 16 13:45 UTC

Important to note that a crime committed in space is a crime without gravity.

Cap 27, 00 / Dec 28, 16 23:17 UTC

@kalel taking people in and out of a planet cost too much. I think best way to deal with criminals is to use them at jobs for the goodness of community. Thomas More's ''Utopia'' is a good example yes maybe doesnt really apply to this time but the concept of using criminals seems reasonable.

Cap 28, 00 / Dec 29, 16 01:12 UTC

The punishment for a high crime should be death. This is not something that should be giving out lightly though. It should be something that is proven beyond a doubt. For all other crimes maybe we should consider something such as the system in Norway. Something that focuses on rehabilitation. You would still be in a prison, just not treated like a animal.

Cap 29, 00 / Dec 30, 16 22:28 UTC

I agree, expulsion from citizenship

Cap 30, 00 / Dec 31, 16 04:24 UTC

I've had enough of the egalitarian ideals on earth. Prisoners would use up vital resources that cannot be expended on an unproductive member of society. I believe the pragmatic approach would be to enslave for a period those with lesser crimes and a death sentence for high crimes. Violent crime should not be tolerated on any level -- there is a strong genetic component to violence that cannot be overlooked when forming a new and isolated gene pool.

Cap 30, 00 / Dec 31, 16 18:04 UTC

Just the words "High Crimes" means nothing. You need to be specific in the crime and its punishment. Murder = ? Sexual Assault = ? Assault = ? Corruption = ? Being an ass = ?

Now what standards will you use for lets say Sexual Assault? It is usually a his vs her version. Did he/she take advantage of a situation or not? In a case where there was an attack and a Sexual Assault occurred do you have the forensics to back up a claim? What do you do if it was a false claim?

A lot of things going on here. Say they made a false claim to get out of a sticky adultery situation? Does that person then get punished? What if it was an unwanted advance with say touching. Does grabbing the buttocks rate death versus maybe a set period of rehabilitation work?

What are the laws right now in the 196 countries covering Sexual Assault? What constitute Sexual Assault?

It isnt an easy oh they were convicted of Sexual Assault and must be shot out the airlock.

I would take a set of laws already in place, redefine them for the situation of being in space and make the punishment fit the crime.

Justice and security will be the tough areas to nail down

Cap 30, 00 / Dec 31, 16 18:22 UTC

Just one more thing to toss out there to think about.

If you do convict someone of Sexual Assault and the punishment isnt being airlocked, what DO you do? Imprisoning them really isnt a productive way. Sending them back to earth, isnt practical. Who on earth would want a non citizen convicted of a crime? Send them back to their original country isnt practical as most say you must give up your citizenship to have citizenship in another country. So basically an Asgadian citizen would be the countryless person.

Now you say will then we will institute punishment and make them work. Ok work at what? What will you trust them with? Life support? Structural? making quilts? Now then for how long do we punish them for? About half the world kills the other half locks them up from 3- to 99 years. Place yourself in their position. What would you do if you were say sentenced to 10 years? After your ten years are up then what? Everything forgiven as you have paid your debt to society? How angry would a person be if they were wrongly convicted? They have had 10 years to think of ways to get revenge. Blow out a section in a habitation or working area, killing you and several others.

People have been known to go crazy locked up.

I dont have the answers, I do have suggestions .

Aqu 02, 01 / Jan 2, 17 03:27 UTC

Imprisoning them isn't unfeasible - As what is unfeasible is us lifting the sort of mass required to build what we would need from the floor, so, If we can build a long term habitation facility that can house our population, we can build another more isolated one just as easily. As for work, there's always things to be done. However, solid educational and example-based rehabilitation tailored to the offenders crimes may be a better long term solution for most cases than incariration. If we can build somewhere to put our people, we're going to be able to nullify most causes of crime, including the deficit thinking that leads to it.

As almost all draft versions of constitutions I've seen seem to include rights to life(some include forefit of in the act of preserving life, but a later execution for crimes would be something else) and various other sentiments I've noted, I feel it's highly unlikely that a death penalty should ever feature in Asgardia. And certainly not out of the airlock - frozen bodies are not the best thing to hit at speed(although, if it goes that route, I know someone deperate to be in control of the switch).

Aqu 06, 01 / Jan 6, 17 20:43 UTC

I've had enough of the egalitarian ideals on earth. Prisoners would use up vital resources that cannot be expended on an unproductive member of society. I believe the pragmatic approach would be to enslave for a period those with lesser crimes and a death sentence for high crimes. Violent crime should not be tolerated on any level -- there is a strong genetic component to violence that cannot be overlooked when forming a new and isolated gene pool.

Wow.

All I can say is, wow.

So you would put material resources--which will, by the way, be extremely abundant, as Asgardia is currently one of the least populated nations on earth--ahead of humanity and human dignity? You would re-introduce what sounds like hardcore "precautionary" eugenics (just like many totalitarian regimes throughout history) and suggest enslavement. And you're suggesting all of this for what, to save a few dollars and maybe free up a chair or two?

With all due respect, that post is both an extremely obvious troll attempt and an incompetent argument all rolled into one. Please stay away from me when we get on the ship; I'm not a fan of sociopaths and transhumanist scum.

Aqu 07, 01 / Jan 7, 17 00:54 UTC

It is not option the lost of citizenship. It is not allowed to create no-state individuals, and for Asgardia will be forbidden to do that by international laws.

Personally, I am against the lost of life.

Pis 13, 01 / Feb 10, 17 01:19 UTC

I am against the death sentence. I can see circumstances where this will 'accidentally' occur. Incarceration also should not be isolation within a hot box. There are more productive ways of utilising this resource in either maintenance or assembly of equipment for the station (add strict monitoring of tools & materials) or even maintaining a section of the recycling process (but don't put all your eggs into the one basket) by waste to manure treatment or harvesting in a simplified but manual method depending upon the individuals capability. Would a sentence be for x number of years or x number of productive days?

Removal of citizenship is awkward as after a generation or more you are making a stateless person and other nations will refuse entry.

If internment actually promotes rehabilitation with the realisation that we are all helping and relying upon each other to be supportive then they should have no issues with re-integration.

Regarding accepting 'hard cases' from other nations I believe we would need to see how the prior paragraph work out first. Also on completion of their term what is the guarantee that the original nation wants them back let alone will pay for the return?

Just my thoughts, D.

Pis 21, 01 / Feb 18, 17 23:30 UTC

Currently high crimes are associated with high migrations of people from one environment to a completely different one. This is what happened with global disasters or for example mass migrations of refugees from one nation to another. With an increase in population it also increases the chance of crimes or high crimes taking place due to disagreements with cultural, political, religious backgrounds.

I'm currently studying Social and Criminal Justice and learning about this on a global perspective and within the united states.

Ari 16, 01 / Mar 13, 17 21:34 UTC

I do not understand why folks are claiming with certainty that no Earth bound nation would accept someone who was banished from Asgardia just because they comitted a crime. Aren't you all aware that it is people who are the greatest resource a nation has? They are the ones who pay the taxes after all and in certain nations, the justice system actually makes money off of prisoners! No nation on Earth is going to turn away someone they can make a buck off of. Even if that person is a criminal, actually, especially if that person is a criminal. Criminals scare the law abiding folks, politicians use that fear to pass bs laws meant to restrict, take away, or otherwise impede the rights of their citizens and increase their own power as well as make money! Which is why not many nations invest the money and time in rehabilitating inmates. It is easier and far more profitable for them not to.

Keeping said folks locked up solves nothing as someone else will just step in to fill the gap and keeping them onboard the space station is just foolish. But, sending them packing even if only to attempt to be rehabilitated planet side. Solves two problems at once, that person will never be able to threaten any non planet side Asgardians but, still be able to recieve treatment and possibly return to Asgardia as a citizen after a mental evaluation. All this can even take place in an Asgardian facility on the planet. Preferably one isolated from the land of the other nations. So, the detainee can not harm anyone else and possibly cause an international incident!