Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 19:57 UTC

Legal/illegal Drug policy  

On the topic of drugs like tobbacco/alcohol/marijuana/etc.. any ideas on how to regulate/potentially tax them? Most countries have tobbacco and alcohol legal but progress on recreational weed is slow and not always effective.

  Updated  on Jan 21, 17 / Aqu 21, 01 11:30 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: [ADMIN] Your post was moved to the Justice forum, which is a more appropriate section for that topic. Thank you for understanding.

Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 20:22 UTC

Whilst I don't use drugs, I think a Portuguese style criminality would be a good system to maintain (IE no longer a criminal offence to have less than a 10 day supply of the drug in question). It helped their drug problem a lot, whilst it didn't stop or slow people taking drugs, sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage dropped by a huge amount.

Jan 23, 17 / Aqu 23, 01 01:43 UTC

We will probably need to forbid/restrict any use of Tobacco/marijuana usage, because if we ever were going up to space so will we live in a confined space and will not have the luxury of using space to let people to smoke without letting other people to get affected by it too. And by using alcohol in the same setup so will it deprive of peoples cognitive thinking and can lead people to damage the space shuttle or hurt other people. But it can be allowed in small doses of special "days".

Jan 26, 17 / Aqu 26, 01 22:45 UTC


  Updated  on May 25, 17 / Can 05, 01 19:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: leaving asgardia

Jan 27, 17 / Aqu 27, 01 05:00 UTC

We should legalize all drugs in Asgardia.

I come from a mental health professional background. I have seen first-hand the experience of individuals who live with addictions being unable to find a "safe" supply of what is often their only source of medicine. The result, is suicide. The result, is mental illness. The result, is sickness...precisely what prohibition is supposed to prevent.

When we make drugs illegal, we open the market up to marijuana that is significantly more dangerous; to tobacco that is significantly more dangerous; to alcohol that exceeds any safe alcohol percentage. We cannot test illegal drugs in labs to ensure that they are what a drug dealer says they are. Moreover, we open "needle" addicts up to the risk of HIV/AIDS and other bacterial contamination from unsafe needle sharing, which is of little concern to addicts. People use drugs--legal and illegal--as a form of self-medication; that is, their inability to access traditional means of care causes them to access the only types of "medicine" they can find. A person with depression might choose to drink hard alcohol bought at the corner store simply because it feels good, even though alcohol clearly makes their depression worse.

My professional and personal opinion is that a focus on education and harm prevention work is much more beneficial. We need to concentrate on educating all Asgardians about how to use drugs and alcohol in a safe and respectful way, while clearly and accurately stating each drug's side-effect. Canada has many "safe needle clinics" that provide a clinical atmosphere and addiction services on-site. Hard drug use should be strongly discouraged.

Besides that, legalizing drugs is fantastic for the economy. The legal marijuana industry in Colorado is worth $6.7 billion.

EDIT: Missed the other part of the question, sorry. Hard drugs should be regulated; soft drugs should only be prohibited from being used in public spaces / public events. There could be a special tax on drugs and alcohol (the "Sin Tax", as English countries have called it), but it has not really worked all that well in the past.

  Last edited by:  Shawn Crawford (Asgardian)  on Jan 27, 17 / Aqu 27, 01 05:04 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 28, 17 / Pis 00, 01 10:46 UTC

The "drugs" should be allowed. That solves the "illicit" issue. It should also be assured of high quality, psychological and medical services provided, somewhere provided for them to do these things out of the way of other folk. Basically, as S. Crawford suggests, stopping it is going to be incredibly difficult - making it safe is not. An unwise decision is still a decision that is theirs to choose, as are the consequences they accept. Education should serve to prevent this becoming a common trend. A good example here is is Denmark's "drug consumption rooms" - either a few rooms or pretty much an entire house where people are tollerated to posess and consume drugs. Thusly, being given somewhere to do this sort of thing, they are no longer hiding in hedgerows, elevators, back alleyways etc. Their equipment should be safely contained, too. Medical staff on tap help make the entire affair as safe as is possible. Various mental health professionals also have a nice concentration of people that may require their attention.

On the topic of tax, this is how the problem starts. Trying to turn it into money. This leads inevitably to trying to make more money, greed is never satisified. In the act of trying to make more money, this is how dealers start cutting their product. Sometimes that desperate to make a buck not caring if it's brick dust or rat poision, the knowlege their customers are going to inject this is overidden by the greed. This is how manufacturers start using cheaper raw materials, alternate processes... trying to make more money. The solution is actually to make them free, and not just of tax. It'd screw over all the dealers... try and build an illicit market around what is freely available. If it was only viable for consumption in one place(or a small selection of places) that would consolidate the users, and their effects.

Jan 29, 17 / Pis 01, 01 12:51 UTC

From a legal perspective the criminalization of drugs has done little to curb the behavior itself. Users who are intent on using will simply be illicit users and will accept the risk/consequences and simply spiral into more desperate behaviors the more access is restricted. I won't go into any morality on the subject because that differs with each person whom you ask. I do think its fair to say that drugs (and I include alcohol in this) are largely accepted around the world but are combated vehemently by non users.

After years of experience in the matter, I believe the only criminal aspects of drug use should have to do with the endangerment to society. For example, operating a motor vehicle while under the use of any intoxicating substance. Penalties for such behavior should increased based on the severity of the harm caused. Basically it consists any behavior that causes harm to another directly or otherwise, which stemmed directly from substance abuse.

As far as public health is concerned, that is a whole different issue, but one which needs to be considered within the wider scope of crime, rehabilitation, and recidivous behavior. Mental health and life skills fields can be effective at aiding those with addictions. At the very least behavioral specialists should be considered when addressing punishment and rehabilitation.

In essence, decriminalize, educate on moderate or controlled usage, control the damage caused to society via abuse, and rehabilitate side by side with punishment.

Feb 5, 17 / Pis 08, 01 15:39 UTC

Any drugs that produce fumes should probably be forbidden. It would be a resource drain to filter out the toxins/smell as the atmosphere on Asgardia would likely be recycled in some way. Drugs that can change a person fundamentally, whether do to addiction or immediate effect, should be forbidden (cocaine, pcp, dmt, heroine, ecstasy. etc). Alcohol could be allowed in a limited fashion. People shouldn't be allowed to get completely smashed.

  Updated  on Feb 5, 17 / Pis 08, 01 15:40 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: spelling

Feb 5, 17 / Pis 08, 01 17:31 UTC

No, you just have areas specifically designated for - and if it requires additional equipment then it gets provided. It'd technically add in no extra filtering as this would be required anyway. Where possible "toxins" can possibly be reacted with other things to create something useful - and anything else can be concentrated and centrafuged into Sol.

I wouldn't suggest that anything you list changes anything fundamental about the person taking it - that was always there and now they've got a good excuse is how it tends to go - so few can actually get a grip on responsibilty and instead seek external causes. But giving them somewhere to do it removes any burden from the rest of the population.

People should be allowed to get "completely smashed" - just encouraged otherwise. The only thing that shouldn't be allowed is the consumption of mind altering substances and then the execution of duties and such. If you wan to mainline DMT go ahead - but until that's cleared your system don't expect to be able to be performing brain surgery. I'd like to think people would have better options than to spend their time wasted.

Feb 6, 17 / Pis 09, 01 09:13 UTC

Drugs (and alcohol) and other such devices of similar nature shouldn't be systematically regulated, or even discouraged for that matter. For what's been almost an entire century, the U.S. alone has proven that not only does even the mere attempt at discouragement actually lead to higher usage, that most all of these policies come from the legal tobacco/alcohol industries, that the black market always wins anyways, but that most drugs are nowhere as dangerous as perceived (ex. cannabis is in fact a miracle plant that was renown for centuries through numerous cultures for its healing properties).

Feb 6, 17 / Pis 09, 01 17:18 UTC

I'd not suggest discouraged, instead encouraged otherwise.

It's not sensible to let someone smoke meth then start playing with the HVAC or othersuch, such "hobbies" would be ultimately crippling - It's just a case of finding something they'd rather be doing. Everyone's interested in something.

Feb 6, 17 / Pis 09, 01 18:36 UTC

While I agree that some drugs should be legalized like marijuana which is not as dangerous as say tobacco is. I do not think it would be a good idea to allow the consumption of drugs in Asgardia. The smoke from cigarettes and joints can screw up electrical systems and that could cause major problems! However, if Asgardia should ever purchase land on Earth then I support the legalization of marijuana only as far as drugs go

Feb 7, 17 / Pis 10, 01 01:21 UTC

Disallowance as previously recognised commonly encourages rather than prohibits, it creates a whole headache of associated enforcements and creates a viable black market, encrougaing criminal behavours.

However, completely legitimised it can be assured of high quality and minimal side effects. By giving them somewhere to do stupid things, like smoke cigarettes and joints(and you think that's bad wait till you've seen the damages more industrial smoking methods can do) you can isolate it from such damages. Generally, we'd not be cooling system components with habitation atmosphere, most likely. The native air recycling system will require to deal with worse in case of fire etc. but putting specific zones and equipments reduces any potential stress. There's very few things that are not possible to entirely mitigate.

Mar 21, 17 / Ari 24, 01 10:09 UTC

I do believe as the laws regarding drugs policy must not be to restrict the right to use it or resell it but to protect the environment and facilities of Asgardia as an example the use of smoke immanent products most be strictly prohibited in a base or space station that's it. A bbq grill is also is not a good Idea when you are in such of environments.

Mar 24, 17 / Ari 27, 01 15:23 UTC

It will be in everyone's best interest if recreational drugs (including alcohol) are made illegal.

I've read many insightful comments and ideas in this thread, but I find one thing to be missing from the arguments I've read; the fact that prohibiting a substance in a place where it has never preciously been available, is very different from prohibiting the same substance in a place where it's already available (legally or not).

On Earth it's relatively easy to grow large amounts of marijuana, or produce large amounts of alcohol, which is one reason why they can be so easily acquired on the black market. That won't be the case in Asgardia, so there won't be the same problem of people acquiring drugs and alcohol from an unrepeatable source, should they be made illegal. Smuggling is still something that could happen, but considering the very restricted amounts of cargo that can (at least at this time) be transported in to space at one time, the amount of goods that could slip though customs (or whatever you want to call it) will be minimal. Here on Earth you could, and it is done, smuggle several kilos of cocaine or pot into any country. On a space cargo ship, even 100gm of a drug, or one small bottle of alcohol would be noticeable. Some might still slip though, but it's going to be much more manageable than the effects of unrestricted access to alcohol and other recreational drugs.

I love wine, and if moving to a space station I would like to be able to have a glass of wine from time to time. However, most of all I want to be safe. Knowing what we know of humans' lack of responsibility and consideration for others, and how we constantly abuse both legal and illegal drugs (not only alcoholics and addicts), my vote will still be for the ban of all recreational drugs/substances. The risks of the potential damages caused by one person abusing alcohol or drugs, so very greatly outweighs the gains for people using it responsibly. Secondly, there are an ever increasing market for non-alcoholic beverages so, if like me, a person would miss the taste of alcoholic drinks there are options. Options that don't include the possibility of a person becoming intoxicated and in that state causing damage that could be life-threatening to everyone on the space station.

Living in space (at least at this point and the foreseeable future) will not be like living on Earth. What we can eat and drink, and what forms of recreation will be available to us, and how often we can engage in these activities will be different from how it is on Earth. Life in space won't entail as many choices as life on Earth does. If a person is not ready to give up a lot of the comforts and luxuries, as well as basic things we take for granted on Earth (i.e. showering as often and as long as you want), for the excitement of space explorations and research - the chance to experience a different way of life - then perhaps it might be better for such a person to serve Asgardia through a job posting on Earth. When Asgardia's space station becomes a reality, initially, most of Asgardia's citizens won't be able to go there anyway. There won't be enough room. It would be in Asgardia's best interest to send those who value the work that can be done at this station, over the consumption/use of recreational drugs (including alcohol) to live on the space station, and leave those who feel that recreational drugs are something they must have in their lives to carry out job positions on Earth.