Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 17:43 UTC

Service Based Economy  

Hi Guys,

This is my idea for the Economy, now I'm not an economist so please feel free to help pick holes/develop the idea.

The reason why most typical Economies wont work for Asgardia is because Asgardia is not a typical country. It's citizens are spread across the planet, we have no tangible assets (except us), no natural resources, no companies paying tax, it is people from all over the planet coming together to try and achieve the same goals.

An efficient and effective Economy for Asgardia's unique situation, would be a service based Economy

We have thousands of eager people offering to help who have a wide range of skills: Programmers, Writers, Artists, Teachers, Musicians etc. the list goes on. Done correctly a service based Economy will help Asgardia grow whilst also allowing its citizens to make money for themselves.

We could achieve this by having a website where people can go to and view what services Asgardians have to offer, pieces of art they have created, etc then any sales that have been made would be subject to a commission charge (for example 15%). Both nation and citizen can benefit from this arrangement and no one is obliged to do anything or commit to anything they do not want to.

*We should have our own web browser like Google,Bing, etc. We could build a web browser and have an app feature like Google, we could have the main websites AIRC, ROOM, main Asgardia site, Forums, our VR library, Services page then any other projects associated with Asgardia VOA etc. The more users we have the more valuable the ad space becomes even if everyone uses as-blockers, the more projects associated with Asgardia and have their logo on the app section, the more users to the more sites, which means more funds.

As some people will be more desirable then others, its likely that some people may struggle as well as some people benefiting. We could have an agreement with each citizen where by they agree to a maximum wealth limit i.e everyone by law can only have up to 100 million Asgardian credits at any one time in their bank account (no idea currency plans). Anything they earn over has to be spent back in the economy.

Although some people might not have the desired skills needed in a professional manner even the smallest help can make big differences to someones life. This is purely an idea and would like peoples feed back.

What if we recorded everything people did to help others? Could be anything from getting shopping, crossing a road, donating money (although the value donated has no nominal value to the points) etc. All these deeds would acquire points and when you get to a certain number of points you would hit a level and receive a "good guy" status (or something better named!). This status would need to be maintained as i suggest that it resets annually.... You would receive a small Dividend for reaching this status as well as having your deeds stored on your profile/record for people to see. If you check out this Amazon Advert: LINK

Job automation is coming and there will be a lot of people out of work with not much else to do, perhaps a small incentive even just recognition is a direction worth thinking about as a way to deal with the inevitable. People often moan about basic income and that people will be paid to do nothing and in turn be lazy, why not pay people to be kind? Again just an idea I have had for quite a while.

Anything that is earned over ** goes to the "Asgardian charity pot". The pot is a website/(ministry department?) where people send in their charity projects, start ups/ education projects/ those struggling etc. but also includes ministerial projects like infrastructure, Research and Development, Education and Health etc etc. Then once a month, Asgardia charity pot send out a vote to all Asgardians asking them where they would like their allocation of funds spent {total pot size/nb of citizens). Then the funds get allocated according to each citizens vote.

**Earned over in millions

Limit = 100, Earned = 150, Kept = 100, Donated = 50 **

If you forget to vote the funds stay where they are and you have to use them next month.

Greed is what destroys nations, and greed can be fueled by personal drive/ambition, drive and ambition are good things and shouldn't be discouraged. In effect this is a super rich tax, not many Asgardians will achieve an earning to reach that limit, but those who do have a real opportunity to make a real difference to those who haven't, whilst still having all the luxuries of their hard labor.

This method also gives control and transparency to the nations citizens, it gives the ambitious a reason to keep progressing forward, and it removes (to an extent) greed from levels in which people can influence a nation.

This is simply an idea I had for Asgardia and is in no way the direction where Asgardia is planning on heading, it is just my opinion that this is the direction Asgardia should be heading :).

Would love to hear some thoughts, and ideally would love to see if people think this could be made in to a viable option.

Have a good day everyone.

  Last edited by:  Lloyd Cox (Asgardian)  on Dec 26, 16 / Cap 25, 00 23:36 UTC, Total number of edits: 6 times
Reason: Added another idea from my personal project.

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 05:23 UTC

Yes I do agree at this moment a service based economy is the way to go. But the way we approach the sharing of funds and tax is hard.

In one hand we could have a open democratic based on the original idea of Communism were its for the people. Where the amount earn by all should be spilt evenly but then you will have people not pull their fair share. what do we do then, not share or do we share at a reduce rate.

On the other hand we could have a full democratic society but then we will still have unfairness.

Long story short, what ever we choose what is the best for Asgardia as well as what is best for the people.

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 15:12 UTC

Well the idea its interesting and its possible we do something like that but for note Before existing currency or things alike, people traded products from the farms or services among themselves,the problem is we make pricing all the things ,this system as substituted by sillver/gold currency for being more easy to price things.

well this system is a OK but theres need to research some means for making it working , but the ideia is good

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 17:58 UTC

I would like to make a proposal to put to the ministry and looking to form a group with those who think the idea has some legs and would like to work on it. I know the idea is not perfect, and I know that it will take more than just me if it is to be a successful system.

I'm not sure of the currency plans, this system can be applied to any currency and am will research what's needed. It's just sometimes hard to see flaws in something you thought of, people finding problems helps :).

I think Communism is not the way to go, nor Democracy, we have a chance to try out and build a new system. I think a transparent system where the people in affect spend the "tax" is the way to go. Think of it, if you had the chance to send money to your local school, hospital, charity, homeless shelter, that wasn't coming out of your pocket, or you was the person (the lucky super rich person who has over 100 million) you get to keep your 100 million, help other people improve their own lives by helping with education costs, building schools etc, and help improve the infrastructure of the place where you live and use that infrastructure, who loses out?

Of course these are just my opinions and we must collectively find all the problems and try to solve them so that if we did implement the SBE we would of solved any foreseeable problems.

Best wishes, Lloyd

  Last edited by:  Lloyd Cox (Asgardian)  on Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 20:43 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 20:20 UTC

First of all, I like this idea since it represents a future economy. If robots prepare the infrastructure and basic products, humans will perform services. They will entertain fellow Asgardians. They will repair breakdowns or clogs in the production process. They will host events, answer questions, etc. One problem I foresee is the charity pool. The existence of a charity pool implies there are two kinds of service: for profit and not for profit. I find all kinds of scams associated with so-called nonprofit orgs. It is almost impossible to determine the worthiness of a so-called charity. Some orgs spend most of their funds on administrators; less than 50% goes toward actual missions. Worse, a two-tier system adds complexity to the economic system. I favor simplicity. For instance, a flat-rate tax that doesn't kick in until basic annual earnings are exceeded. The flat-rate system would allow no loopholes, no tax shelters. A six-year-old could fill out a income tax return, but ultra-wealthy folks would have nowhere to hide their incomes. They would pay the flat-rate with NO EXCEPTIONS.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 20:31 UTC

Hi Jo,

Would you be interested in working out the tweaks together?

I understand your concerns about the charity pool and transparency, i thought if we made everything public via the site/platform, everyone can look at any time. You can't do something you are not suppose to if anyone and everyone can see it.

I agree with a flat rate tax, my approach was to apply it in a life time, not each year/monthly. Their would be a commission taken for the fixed costs of Asgardia (Administration, Education (haven't even mentioned how this would work with a SBE and the digital library free for each Asgardian), Health, Infrastructure etc,) from the sales of the services given. There would be no need to tax the citizen anymore after that, then when you attain a certain level, you can not hold any assets (liquid or tangible) over the fixed wealth limit. You can spend the money back in to the Economy, as long as it does not increase your capital or choose where to donate the excess. Otherwise it goes ini to the pot for the community to decide where to allocate their share, which is 100% traceable so no one can cheat the system.

Best wishes, Lloyd

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 20:37 UTC

At least it would be a good exercise to find ways to reward good deeds and to stay away from a money system.

So we give points to good deeds, we take points for bad deeds, and give no points for no deeds.

We should make a list how many points for what kind of deeds.

We also should give everybody a good start, lets say for example +10 points.

I would like to participate in this project if i may.

Grtz, Dirk.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 21:03 UTC

Hi Dirk,

That is a great idea i think that is a solid foundation to build upon! And of course you are more then welcome to be on the team, when we put a team together :).

Best wishes, Lloyd

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 21:43 UTC

Something i wrote on FB before Asgardia:

6 September 2016:

We're going to remove the money and work with points.

;-)

Grtz, Dirk.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 22:00 UTC

I think the transition to money less society might be beyond our reach, but we can certainly lay the foundations for that transition :).

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 22:23 UTC

Ok, but lets say to the outside everything stays the same as we are in the first place citizens of our place of residence.

But inside Asgardia (at this moment on this forum), we could start setting up such an environment for testing.

Maybe we could work together with the IT group who wants to add buttons to like or dislike comments and see if we can integrate this system into that system. Also if people on the forum do great work for Asgardia (on this forum) we could reward them with good points that they can keep for always. We could organise an online voting to choose the best deed out of the 10 best deeds of the month for example. And give the winners each some points.

Grtz, Dirk.

Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 04:11 UTC

Hi Lloyd, it's an interesting idea let me know if I might be able to help out with it. I'm all for the idea of evolving beyond money.

Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 15:30 UTC

well we could do the system of points in the forum and give points to people com good ideas or that give good suggestions and see if this work and the 10 people with the greatest number of points can vote in the elections (if already can vote pass to 11,12,13.......),what do you all think? its rewarding and we can use this to test

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 13:24 UTC

I think a evolving tax rate, depending on your wealth is a better solution, for example if you have less than 10 million your tax is 5%, if you have between 10 and 20 million your tax should be 10%, and you keep incresing the tax rate until people with more than 100 million have a tax rate of 50%, thats an example that could be modified and adapted to the valor of the currencie we use and many other things

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 15:03 UTC

The SBE would have an increment tax structure,but i think the limit would be something every Asgardian agreed to, a way or acknowledging no one needs more than a set amount of money. That's just greed.

I will be looking to form a team after the holiday season to draft an official proposal covering all aspects mentioned above, people are free to put there name forward for the team.

Best wishes, Lloyd