Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 16:08 UTC

Re: Banning of Members  

Ultimately, I believe there should be a reason applied to the Banned status. For example, the status should have a link to a page where the evidence is presented. There should also be an established duration for said ban. Furthermore, there should be a grievance page to report issues. And, there should be a channel / forum whereby the accused can refute the evidence and better explain themselves. There should certainly be a means to allow someone back on the forum.

I also would like to understand how the forum status (of banned) affects one potential Citizenship within Asgardia. This is not clear.

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 16:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 16:45 UTC

I yet expressed my opinion about "undocumented bans" into this thread so I won't repeat/copy all that here (mods/admins are obviously free to move/copy my post, if they feel it's appropriate).

I just wish to add I particularly liked @LoreZyra's proposal of having a link where one can read an explanation of what happened. I also would add that, in the "explanation post/thread", there should be the banned's defense (or comments): self defense or aided by an attorney, the way he/she feels is better.

I also remember that, from Dr. Ashurbeyli's words (as he is speaking "in our name as Head of State"), we're all (certified) citizens of Asgardia, not just (registered) forum's users. So, any ban is expressely against our (defining) "civil rights" and, at least, should be handled with great care.

Other wise ones had yet explained their concerns far better than I can do, so I've nothing more to add, but I wish to remember, here, that this one is not an "asgardians' against admins" war: I thank mods/admins for their volunteer work, and I think they're also "a little" squashed in between our questions and the silence which comes from the Officials (which, acting in this way, are creating kind of "other side", when we should be all to the same side of the problem: trying to make Asgardia going and a better place for all). Admins/Mods are asgardian's citizens who are doing more than the usual citizen, but they can't invent answers they don't have (but soliciting them for sure).

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 16:57 UTC

I also hope it is clear to everyone that these discussions are not adversarial and have no pressing reason to become adversarial.

Tau 06, 01 / Mar 31, 17 19:54 UTC

I also hope it is clear to everyone that these discussions are not adversarial and have no pressing reason to become adversarial.

I second this^

Tau 07, 01 / Apr 1, 17 13:22 UTC

>  There should also be an established duration for said ban. Furthermore, there should be a grievance page to report issues. And, there should be a channel / forum whereby the accused can refute the evidence and better explain themselves. There should certainly be a means to allow someone back on the forum.

Yeah, permabans on a 'government forum' are essentially disenfranchising events, like taking away your right to vote.

TEE

Tau 07, 01 / Apr 1, 17 16:04 UTC

In light of EyeR's apparent ressurrection and comments, is anyone in charge planning to respond to the concerns expressed about the transparency of decions about banning? Remember my earlier comment about uncertainty, fear and mistrust of leadership growing exponentially? We are getting to that point fast... if we are not already there.

Tau 07, 01 / Apr 1, 17 19:20 UTC

Hey all,

I'd like to point out that being banned from the forums doesn't remove you as a community member for Asgardia. All persons who's accounts that have been banned are still intact and they are only blocked from posting on the forums. They will still be able to vote, read the forums and official website, and take part in person community events and will have access to other features linked to their profiles as they are released.

Kind regards,

Rebekah Berg, Lead Community Administrator, Asgardia

Tau 07, 01 / Apr 1, 17 23:11 UTC

Hi Rebekah.

The issue here is not what banned members are and are not able to do. It relates to the transparancy of the decision to ban members and remove posts.

I was fortunate enough to be awake last night when the "Eye-R" posts were made. After waking up this morning, I see they have been removed, like the never existed. I'm not saying I agree with what was posted, but it is unnerving that members and posts can be "disappeared", seemingly unilaterally.

Like it or not, this forum is different to any other chat / facebook group. I view this forum a bit like a town square where citizens can come and share their thoughts and opinions.

As with any town square, there are those who yell louder than others, those whose views are a bit out there and those that just come to listen. But, in a free society, all are welcome as long as the established rules / laws are followed. If they are not, then there is an established and transparent process in dealing with those situations, often known as a justice system.

This is where Asgardia is failing at the moment. Yes there are rules but there seems to be no transparency or consistency in how they are applied. There also seems to be no right of appeal when action is taken (or none that is documented anywhere at least).

To go back to my town sqaure analogy, its a bit like seeing someone in the town square get critical of the government one day and vanish the next. When the question is asked where that person is, the response from the governement is "They are fine. Trust us." Then more people disappear without explination. The citizens begin to realise that that they are not completely free to express their views and opinions. They begin to realise it is not safe to speak in the town square, so they stop comming.

I really want this project to succeed. I personally think it can serve as an example to humanity of the way forward for our species. But if we fail at providing the foundation of a free and open society for Asgardia's citizens, then the project is over before it even begins.

With all due respect Rebekah, this issue urgently needs to be addresses by someone at / near the top of Asgardia and soon.

Tau 08, 01 / Apr 2, 17 00:00 UTC

I couldn't agree more Scarbs. I saw them as well and noticed that they'd all been removed.  I think everyone would like some answers.

Tau 08, 01 / Apr 2, 17 04:08 UTC

But this has gone beyond mere squabbling. The platform setup for the dissemination of news and for Asgardians to communicate with each other now appears to be threatened.

Let me be clear, I'm not condoning the actions of the banned members. However, from what I know (which is admittedly not a lot given the transparency issues) this situation has not been handled well by the admin team. The parties concerned need to take a breath, step away from their keyboards and apply some game theory to the current issue so that everyone wins (at least a little). 

Tau 08, 01 / Apr 2, 17 08:04 UTC

is it possible to manage posts like mailbox? just tag the posts, eg. "repeat", "spam", "advertisement", "nonrelevant"... moderators or admin set hide rules choosing posts with which tags to hide,  thus ppl won't be bothered by those contents. and the writers of those posts will know they r wasting time posting these kind of things, and learn to behave themselves eventually. as all asgardians r supposed sis and bro supporting each other to realize a goal technicolly so near which need help hand and help mind as many as possible. thought most of us came here to let it happen

Tau 09, 01 / Apr 3, 17 03:07 UTC

> What is not being mentioned is that both nihylum de and EyeR, in effect, stated their intent to usurp control of the IT or have now actively circumvented IT causing disruption that has impacted this Forum in a negative way. I am not surprised that earned a ban. Regardless of how qualified or intelligent they are, their demeanor has been deliberate to sabotage. This goes beyond being "jerks" and blustering insults.

That is very dangerous behavior.  I feel it is in the public interest for us to know these things, which is the reason I advocate for transparency. Maybe we should get a deadline as to when we can expect a resolution so that people aren't impatient and start to believe that the public's plead is being ignored.

  Last edited by:  Yoevelyn Rodriguez (Asgardian, Comm Assistant)  on Tau 09, 01 / Apr 3, 17 03:09 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Is the formatting not working?

Tau 09, 01 / Apr 3, 17 12:51 UTC

@Yovy

>> What is not being mentioned is that both nihylum de and EyeR, in effect, stated their intent to usurp control of the IT or have now actively circumvented IT causing disruption that has impacted this Forum in a negative way. I am not surprised that earned a ban. Regardless of how qualified or intelligent they are, their demeanor has been deliberate to sabotage. This goes beyond being "jerks" and blustering insults.

Whilst I do not agree or condone such behaviours, EyeR simply stated what would happen when the posts where removed from view and then asked politely for that not to happen. This occurred AFTER the ban. I'd imagine he felt it was handled unreasonably too .I don't see where Nihylum proclaimed to take control of anything, he simply disagreed with some things he thought were stupid. EyeR, however,  hasn't DONE anything. I see no evidence of damage. I suspect based on other posts,  if he had intented to do something he would have. The "danger" I believe is from the admins who have failed to take precautions to prevent this from happening. The mods/admin have ignored almost every infraction  by others that was aimed AT him, and concentrated on the infractions that represented a minority of his input.  Follow his posts, and see how unreasonable he appears.



Tau 09, 01 / Apr 3, 17 13:11 UTC

  1. Behavior relating to 'hacking' the forums should be grounds for banning, because that disrupts everyone else's opportunity to speak. The person who hacks these forums essentially places themselves above all others in having the right to speak. That should not be allowed and should be punished by banning.
  2. Attempting to bypass a ban by making a new account is, on every forum I have ever been on for the last 20 years, grounds for a continuance of the ban, the removal of the posts, and perhaps other penalties. I am not surprised that Eye-R's posts were removed, and I never saw them personally, but if he did do that then it demonstrates his unwillingness to take the penalty for whatever behavior he did. If he has grievances against the punishment, he can take it up with the admins. There are other channels he can speak to them through, if he so chooses.

Back on topic: I am still waiting to see some sort of procedure for folks to get unbanned, or at least a list of durations of bans, and further transparency about why people are banned. Privacy is one thing, but smokescreening is quite another.

EDIT: I should also point out that whomever Eye-R was, it may not have been EyeR, but an impersonator.

LAC

  Updated  on Tau 09, 01 / Apr 3, 17 13:13 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Added impersonation bit

Tau 09, 01 / Apr 3, 17 13:50 UTC

Phicksur, I was fortunate enough to see the posts before they were unilaterally removed... it was unquestionably him.