Should leaders be able to post GoFundMe pages to forums

Total number of votes: 6

16.7% Yes

83.3% No

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 03:41 UTC

Why are notices of leadership GOFUNDME pages deleted  

The official election page says that candidates are allowed to receive donations from individuals and organizations but leaders who have set up GOFUNDME pages and posting them to the forum are having them locked and deleted.  This would be like the US saying you can get election donations but you can't advertise about where or how to donate in the US.  Since the way voting works currently (And several posts pointing out issues about them have magically disappeared today) the only way for a single person to get 100 votes would be to spend money advertising Asgardia in their area in order to get new citizens that can vote.  The only way we candidates can do this is if we are able to let all Asgardians know how to donate to us so that we can get the funds to do so  unless the intent is that only independently wealthy should be leaders.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 04:42 UTC

Hi @tempus12 on 19 June 2017, 3:41 a.m.

You may find the Code of Conduct of this forum helpful. In order to post an external link to a non-affiliated site, you need to first ask and gain permission to do so. I would suggest reading Article 4§2.

Here is the Link for your convenience: Code of Conduct

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 04:48 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 04:46 UTC

@LoreZyra Thank you for answering the question I thought since it was for Asgard elections and stated in the election pages as allowed that it was not a violation and did not need the request.  Can we get someplace on the forum made where candidates can post this information without having to wait a long period of time to get approved/disapproved

  Last edited by:  Miller Wilson (Asgardian)  on Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 04:47 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 05:02 UTC

@Jason Rainbow I have seen that but if there are specific rules and oversight then candidates and citizens need to know exactly what they are and where to find them.  If there is such place I have not been able to find it so what exactly is the oversight.  As pointed out by you the US is required to have the campaign finance laws listed as Laws and voted on and not just stated whenever the issue comes up.  If Asgardia and the elections are to be taken serious this and other voting issues should have already been handled before any election and voting opened up and definitely needs to be resolved ASAP to prevent more issues from happening going forward.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 05:37 UTC

In every country I have lived in, including Philippines, Afghanistan, and US local candidates are not self-funded and but in fact get donations as even a campaign for a local sheriff or constable can cost tens of thousands of US$ even in those locations and rules need to be stated clearly to avoid misunderstandings.  If leaders are not allowed to promote donations which are allowed per Asgardia webpage then we need to have that and other rules posted where it is easy to find so people are not violating any rules without knowing it.  Also there is no way to get even 100 votes in most regions as there are not that many Asgardians that are eligible to vote in their regions and leaders would need to spend money to promote Asgardia in order to get enough people in their region to vote for them.  As I see this as part of the duties of a leader that is not a problem but we should be able to let other Asgardians know how they can help us out in some way beyond just our blogs that are only seen by 1% of the active Asgardians in our City/Region.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 07:16 UTC

Point is that if you are going to have rules they need to be listed so candidates know them.  If you are going to say people can receive donations and they go through the work then there should be a way for them to be recognized by all Asgardians as well.  Campaigns do utilize those methods but they also utilize things like billboards, radio, and TV ads as well as websites that are supported by government and parties.  If we are not allowed to post donation and campaign info to the forums and official Asgard sites then it should be posted in a rules section about candidates, donations, and what is or is not allowed.  I would hate to take out an ad using the Asgardia symbols saying that people should join and vote for me only to get sued because I used that stuff.  Leaders need to know how and what they can use to collect donations, votes, and advertise/campaign.  I don't disagree with the policies but do believe this is a subject that needs to be discussed and addressed to avoid problems going forward.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 07:37 UTC

If we are not leaders then how come the city page lists me as a local Leader?  These are things that need to be addressed to stop confusion.  If the site calls someone a local leader and they are listed as a candidate and the elections page says leaders are able to get donations then it is going to cause problems.  These things need to be addressed immediately so prevent further confusion. 

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 08:09 UTC

Exactly it lists us as leaders and then another page says leaders can get donations.  Not hard to see the problem as the official site does not differentiate between the two and I know I'm not the only one that is finding this confusing.  The elections are for local leaders, we are listed as candidates, and the city page lists us as local leaders without specifying that is only because we are the latest blog poster.  Legally speaking in all English speaking countries we are being told we are leaders and allowed to collect donations.  This needs to be fixed and clarified for legal reasons or someone will get courts involved and that would not be good.  To be honest with all the issues with voting, failure to communicate information properly, and websites going down more and more people are starting to call this project a scam.  If this project is going to work these issues need to be fixed and steps taken to prevent them in the future.  As I said I'm not opposed to the decisions but pointing out issues where confusion and potential legal problems are.  The term Leader must be used consistently and places where it is used  currently that are not how the Leaders of elections are need to be changed.  Specific rules about the donations MUST legally be posted as soon as it is said Leaders can accept them especially if you are using the term to describe anyone anywhere else on the site.  This is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT in the US, EU, and most other countries and opens Asgardia up to a slew of civil and criminal legal actions.  We need all of these things updated and explained on the site that is easily accessed ASAP before something bad happens and people sue, get sued, or get arrested.

PS. Having a message saying "Unlicensed Froala Editor" also makes it appear like the site and project are Unprofessional, Scams, and/or violating laws.  Whether it is true or not that is the perception and perception is 90% of success to a project like this.

Jun 20, 17 / Leo 03, 01 00:56 UTC

@Ann Griffith my region (and many others) has less than 1000 people and few than 100 active people but a population in the millions so the only way to get more than 10 votes is by actively promoting and gaining new citizens in my region (which all Leaders should be doing). Since the majority of the population is poor and do not own computers but rent them at internet cafes also means to campaign is to take it offline. The only way to be able to have meet ups is by renting space for them which costs money and yes TV and Radio ads would be needed.  I live in the Philippines so the laws about this stuff is different than in the US especially for what we are doing.  Remember not every place is the US or EU and most places in Asia and Middle East are having the same issues with computer/internet access, permits for organizing meetups that deal with a foreign nation, travel, and a multitude of other legal requirements to ensure that Leaders and members are not arrested.  If you think this is only online elections and campaigning then reread the election information where it plainly states we are encouraged to vote offline at meet ups in addition to on-line voting.  No one who takes this project and election serious is going to keep everything online and doing things outside of and does cost money.  I hope I have explained why candidates need money to have any chance that their region is represented in higher government.

Jul 20, 17 / Vir 05, 01 15:58 UTC

@Tempus 12

I understand the points that you have made as far as potential uses for funding during candidacy, but let me play devils advocate for a moment..

How does Asgardia ensure potential candidates are using funds directly and specifically for above board, Asgardia related activities only? What happens to these funds once campaigning is over? What happens to the funds if candidates lose? Is it possible that the candidate does something shady, gets caught and then says that they were funded by Asgardia, being that they got the money from having posts in Asgardia supported forums/site? I believe that this last situation specifically is why candidates are not allowed to post a fundraising site on the forums/affiliated sites. It implies approval support by administration and could lead to Asgardia being in a precarious legal situation.

Hope this explanation helps.

Kind Regards,