Jun 27, 01 / Jun 16, 17 22:04 UTC

Re: Asgardian Constitution: Proposals for Changes  

Those amendments seem reasonable to me, and clearly outlines the core values of my suggestion. I approve of this amendment. 

Jun 27, 01 / Jun 16, 17 22:11 UTC

Propose Change: I propose an amendment to Article 33.3. that reads as follows:Members of Parliament are elected for terms of five years from among Asgardian citizens who have reached the age of 21

  Last edited by:  Darth Kool (Asgardian)  on Jun 27, 01 / Jun 16, 17 22:13 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 27, 01 / Jun 16, 17 22:19 UTC

ropose Change: I propose an amendment to Article 32.5. that reads as follow: The second and subsequent Heads of Nation can be any Asgardian citizen over the age of 30 and under the age of 65 who has held space citizenship for at least five years prior to being nominated, who has the physical and mental health to perform the duties of Head of Nation.

Jun 27, 01 / Jun 16, 17 22:49 UTC

Bolded text is changes from the original, as I felt his proposal was sound at its core but needed some elaboration and reword in in places to satisfy intent. 

Jun 28, 01 / Jun 17, 17 01:58 UTC

All existing proposals have been added. I look forward to seeing more.

Jun 28, 01 / Jun 17, 17 17:09 UTC

Hi,

I created an Etherpad with the current state of the constitution with the current proposals. There everyone can edit the whole text and comment on selections of text. I will put remarks and opinions on the document from other threads there, too. The idea is, that we don't have one person to manage all the proposed changes to merge with the document.

I hope this can be a central place, where everyone can directly change or remark the document to create something most citizens can accept.

Jun 28, 01 / Jun 17, 17 18:07 UTC


CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT

Article 22.5

Original:

“Asgardia prohibits the propaganda of immoral and antisocial behaviour, the production and circulation of information on any storage media which contains mass information that is harmful to morality and/or aims to undermine or diminish its Supreme Values.”

Proposed Change:

STRICKEN

Reasoning:

1.      This section violates section 8.4(a) of the constitution: “freedom of the individual and freedom of speech are inviolable;”

2.      This section of the constitution poses an extreme risk for persecution of individuals for their religious, non-religious views, their sexuality, and their political beliefs, based on the vague definition of “morality and antisocial behavior”. The question of morality is not a question of the state, and exposes citizens to undue risk of persecution.

Article 22.6

Original:

“Asgardia prohibits any persecution for views and convictions. Any persecution for expression of views is prohibited, provided that such views do not contain propaganda of immorality, seek to undermine or diminish Supreme Values, threaten national security, incite violence, strife, demean the honour and dignity of individuals, disclose restricted information, and which is not otherwise specified by requirements for ensuring information security.”

Proposed Change:

“Any persecution for expression of views and convictions is prohibited, provided that such views do not incite violence, strife, disclose restricted information, and which is not otherwise specified by requirements for ensuring information security.”

Reasoning

1.      Updated to reflect the changes in Article 22.5, regarding “Morality and Antisocial behaviour”

2.      Removed section stating that freedom of speech should be prohibited if it “threaten(s) national security” as such an article would:

a.      Endanger free thought, and opposing political views, under the argument that ideas which deem to shift the structure of the government, for better or worse, could pose a threat to “national security”. Such limitation on our potential growth as a society in the future should not be expunged

b.      Any speech which seeks to incite violence, such as in the form of violant political revolution, would already be covered by the inclusion of “incite(s) violence” and as such, becomes redundant in this context

3.      Removed section stating that freedom of speech should be prohibited if it “demean(s) the honour and dignity of individuals”, as such an article would:

a.      This section violates section 8.4(a) of the constitution: “freedom of the individual and freedom of speech are inviolable;”

b.      This section would pose a risk of persecution for a citizen making an innocuous statement in frustration. Eg. “Ugh, that’s a stupid idea” could become a prosecutable offence. In addition this law could be used to unduly protect individuals in power from criticism, and create a pathway of authoritarianism



  Last edited by:  jean1880 (Asgardian)  on Jun 28, 01 / Jun 17, 17 18:34 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jun 28, 01 / Jun 17, 17 21:09 UTC

Lorditerator,

I love what you've got going there. I only wish we could integrate it with the forums, and somehow track support for changes in addition to commentary on changes. You highlight the heavy revisions that will be needed to give the majority of individuals involved with this project confidence that this is what they were led to believe they would be involved with.

That having been said, I will maintain this thread for now. I feel having a central place for revisions that is part of the forums for Asgardia, and tracking of which Asgardians have spoken up in support of those changes fits the model for this experiment. If at some point in the future I discontinue maintaining this document, I will make an edit to the first post directing people towards the tool you have created.

Jun 28, 01 / Jun 17, 17 23:09 UTC

Propose Change: I propose an amendment to Article 33.3. that reads as follows:Members of Parliament are elected for terms of five years from among Asgardian citizens who have reached the age of 25. 

While I agree that it should be much younger than 40, I would not support anything under 25. 25 is the age that most people would be finished with college and be moving onto professional lives. They've also lived quite a number of years, and have seen many changes. They're still young enough to have a voice for the younger Asgardian's but not to old to not be able to relate to them. It's a good balance.

Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 00:40 UTC

Hey @Sritterbush
don't get me wrong. It's totally fine to maintain this in the forum, since the etherpad is not integrated on the official site. And it's not only fine, you do a great job. It's important that all people can see we care about making progress for a constitution we all can agree on. And that can only be done within the forums, I see your point. I will still gather all I can find on comments and change proposals an put I in the pad just to have it in one place since there a several threads for that in the moment.

Keep up the good and for all others: Tell us what you think about what we need for our consitution :)

Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 02:51 UTC

I invite everyone to add your comments and concerns to this consolidated thread I have setup.

>> Discussion of the Second draft Constitution <<

  Last edited by:  user 125756 (Asgardian)  on Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 14:26 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated color format

Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 06:25 UTC

article 1: Keep the original name of "Space Nation of Asgardia", and do not use the term kingdom, because nation retains better the idea of equity between citizens. without depreciating the scheme of government that is decided now or in the future, Another acceptable name may be "Space State of Asgardia" or "Commonwealth of Asgardia", because it emphasizes unity and organization of the population in search of the common good 

maybe article 3 or chapter 4 , Should include a text where it is clear that no technical, political or economic power, whether internal or external, will have more validity than the will and voice that comes from the population of Asgardia, which is where the present and future of the nation, and any debt or violation of laws that is contracted with third parties will be full responsibility of the individuals involved and not of the nation or population. No financial, natural or knowledge resource can be privatized to the detriment of the well-being of the population. And these resources will be equitably distributed on the basis of the needs of the population, when situations require this action (new colonies, disasters, crises, and others).

chapter 5 After the initial organization period (as an option after 5 years of the creation of the nation), the population will have the power to self organize for request exceptional referendums when the national organs ignore the popular will-voice, especially in moments of resolution of problems or crises affecting the common welfare. The referendums may propose solutions to problems, projects, as well as replacement, investigation or judgments of members of government or subordinates. Any information, project or discussion in entities or sub-entities of the government must be published in real time (if this is possible), including international relations, with the exception of information of high national security, unless the population will determine otherwise, under procedures to be established in the future. The government must guarantee mechanisms for postulating comments on such discussions or information and at the same time be public.

about territory
It is necessary to consider that in the long term the nation will have subcommunities that should be self-organized, so I propose a section of operation as a confederation or that defines semi-autonomous substates

About the elections
Currently does not affect the concept of electronic voting, but it is necessary to guarantee a system of contrast between final numbers such as a certificate or files that is left in the hands of the voter for a second verification in case of inconsistency or discontent

Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 14:01 UTC

Oppose change to Article 33.3 and 32.5: On the grounds that which Asgardia is meant to be a Nation not governed by politics but by science and evidence, it makes far more sense for parliamentary and government posts to be staffed by persons already having had the opportunity to advance their life's work as individuals and gain expertise in their field. Duties of governance distract from those pursuits and the higher minimum age encourages younger Asgardians to pursue their passions and make significant impacts upon Asgardian culture via discovery and creative pursuits and only once that phase of their life is over, continue to contribute as a member of Government or Parliament. Further Article 16.6 specifics that one of Parliament's first tasks is to establish election procedures and term limits. Additional language elsewhere is unnecessary as this will be set out by law with the first Parliament.

  Last edited by:  Lila C. Redden (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 14:22 UTC, edited 3 times in total.

Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 14:17 UTC

Oppose change to articles 22.5 and 22.6 - The restriction of the expression of immoral views does not state anti-government views but rather views which contradict the supreme values. If we agree to abide by those tacitly the original text is merely more specific. Also, some of these wordings are necessary to enable the government to protect sensitive information from being disseminated to other nations which is in the interest of national security.

Propose full new amendment governing the declaration of what may not be deemed immoral - A full discourse and dialectic would be necessary to construct this amendment and may be a task to be set for the first parliament.

Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 21:28 UTC

Dev: Accidental Double post due to server issues

  Last edited by:  Sritterbush (Asgardian)  on Asg 1, 01 / Jun 18, 17 21:29 UTC, edited 1 time in total.