Should refugees be allowed?

Total number of votes: 167

26.9% Yes

9.6% No

23.4% Depends on reason

15.0% Yes, If there life is in danger

9.0% Yes, in limited quantities

16.2% Yes, in limited quantities or when there life is in immediate danger

Cap 21, 00 / Dec 22, 16 18:34 UTC

Refugees - People on the run from violence, politics, their faith, their economic situation,... -  

Some question about refugees - Something to think about

How would you determine the difference between legal and illegal refugees?

Would all refugees be allowed into Asgardia or only a certain number?

Would refugees be allowed to bring in family? Even if these family members are in a safe place elsewhere?

Would refugees be allowed to move freely?

Would refugees be allowed to stay in Asgardia, after the conflict in his/her country is resolved?

When answered no. how about students and fully adapted refugees or refugee babies?

What would be the criteria to be recognized as an refugee? Would refugees get the same benefits as citizens Ex. right to vote, learn,work, own property, get married,... etc....

  Last edited by:  Quinten Desmyter (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Cap 21, 00 / Dec 22, 16 18:39 UTC, Total number of edits: 4 times

Cap 21, 00 / Dec 22, 16 19:19 UTC

I put yes, with the addition of depends on the reason and the limited quantity/life in danger combo because, no matter what, we are going to have to examine each and every case as there are too many more questions that would need to be addressed.

Often times, refugees will flee in large groups and enter another country without the exact expressed permission.

If we have a self sustaining space habitat, we will not have a big issue with illegal immigration/refugees/etc...

Id imagine they would have to contact us first, or some sort of situation where we have intervened, and we would have to assess the situation and the available resources...

Our goal is always to help elevate the idea of mankind. We should always strive to help humanity and shouldnt punish anyone for having to cope with and survive the atrocities of this planet

Cap 22, 00 / Dec 23, 16 04:02 UTC

First, you would require somewhere to put them. Until then it's not really something worth lending a great deal of consideration.

I personally think that regardless of reasons, Asgardia should be able to be considered as a safe refuge from various things - however, a constant influx isn't something particularly sustainable.

If it's a short term thing, and they plan on going home ASAP then it should be managable. Especially if a facility is built for this purpose. It strikes me as possibly easier to attack the root causes of the problem, but this would potentially involve interfering with Earth's politics which I think should be avoided, intensely.

  Updated  on Cap 22, 00 / Dec 23, 16 04:02 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Cap 22, 00 / Dec 23, 16 06:47 UTC

I think that it would be unwise to take an official stance on wether or not we will accept refugees before Asgardia is a member of the UN and until we have the resources to follow through if we will accept them. At the moment refugees are a hot topic with some countries being strongly for and some strongly against accepting refugees. If Asgardia was to take an official stance on the issue before joining the UN it could be perceived that we will just be more opposition for countries which disagree with us. This would have a negative affect on our position. In my opinion, staying neutral on this issue is just one less obstacle to being recognised by the UN.

Cap 23, 00 / Dec 24, 16 07:05 UTC

Perhaps in future we might have the means to support people from outside the community that lost everything and try to integrate them.

But for now we are a project with the goal of gathering and uniting people. And with that everyone is welcome to join and start a new life.

Cap 27, 00 / Dec 28, 16 14:42 UTC

I think that keeping refugees in Asgardia or throw them out depends on the reason caused for their behavior. Sometimes in some situations we know that we have to take some actions immediately though they are illegal. It may depends on safeguarding their or some other ones' life. so we want to look at the incidence in the angle 'how I will behave in such a situation?'. sometimes this maybe dissatisfy a one party, however my opinion is we want to look at the reason which cause that reaction in a fair way. So I think when acting on refugees, from, as well as lawyers we also must get the help from counselors and also psychologists to give the last result. Also I think it will be better to go beyond the traditional court as we are going to build a nation where there is more freedom.

Cap 27, 00 / Dec 28, 16 16:14 UTC

I made a post in another topic: https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/immigration-and-refugees-35/topic/immigration-to-what-1045/ expressing a potential idea for house refugees and allowing them to join as full citizens. So I'll refer to this to explain my answers to these questions

"How would you determine the difference between legal and illegal refugees?"

I'd assume an illegal refugee is someone that somehow made it to the first area without official aid/knowledge

"Would all refugees be allowed into Asgardia or only a certain number?"

I think we should allow an amount that we can comfortably provide protection and basic needs too, especially considering the strain it could course for others

"Would refugees be allowed to bring in family? Even if these family members are in a safe place elsewhere?"

I think it depends on a case to case basis if its a close family member that would be impacted by their separation then yes

"Would refugees be allowed to move freely?"

Limited, please refer to my proposal.

"Would refugees be allowed to stay in Asgardia, after the conflict in his/her country is resolved?"

See proposal

"When answered no. how about students and fully adapted refugees or refugee babies?"

Yes for students and fully adapted refugees, see above for reasoning. Babies depending on parents

"What would be the criteria to be recognized as an refugee? Would refugees get the same benefits as citizens Ex. right to vote, learn,work, own property, get married,... etc...."

I think a refugee should be classified as an individual who cannot return to their origins due to political, religious etc. reasons that would end in the individual in the lose off life or basic human rights, and that cannot go to another nation.

  Last edited by:  Alan Player (Asgardian)  on Aqu 02, 01 / Jan 2, 17 00:14 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Edited to create hyperlink. This can be done by adding < > around URL

Aqu 01, 01 / Jan 1, 17 04:48 UTC

The thing with accepting refugees is we need to have a territory so, that is for the future.

But the problem then might be that by accepting refugees we will be interfering with another country and takin those issues to space.

I don't think that is compatible with Asgardia.

Aqu 13, 01 / Jan 13, 17 04:21 UTC

Everyone needs to think on topics like this from a logical stand point only. No political view points and no emotional view points.

It's a space station above earth mentry to protect earth. Chances are we will have limited spacing and supplies even without refugees. You just cannot let anyone in.

From a security stand point no one who isn't authorized should be allowed near the station since we are protecting the earth itself.

If we have the ability we can accept refugees at Asgardia embassies and process them from there. But as far as the station itself, no one should be accepted or allowed near without proper authorization.

Aqu 19, 01 / Jan 19, 17 02:07 UTC

Maybe in a far distant future in which a "earth colony" in the traditional sense is established Asgardia could accept "refugees" in the traditional sense. For the foreseeable it it unlikely that there will ever be enough room physically for all of the current Asgardians to reside physically in Asgardia, and those that do will be very special Asgardian Citizens carrying out the Asgardian mission. If that eventuality ever arises there is a physical place with room to spare, then I think we should only accept refugees that the community is able sustain responsibly and will become one of us. Asgardia has a humanitarian aspect, but it also has other missions. It sounds really Hooky but the best thing we can do NOW for refugees is try to foster peace on earth between nations. Asgardians are so diverse, If we can learn to come together as Asgardians perhaps we can help humanity with the problems of violence, poverty, and environmental damage that plague us as species and lead so many to become refugees. We ought to come up with concrete plans that tackle these problems after we are recognized, stable, and established ourselves. There is so many new technologies that are not being utilized because some company hasn't found a way to make tons money. Asgardia can not be responsible for solving war and hunger, but may the fact that our nation will be FREE to pursue these new technologies and hopefully FREE of greed we can be the missing part of the puzzle to come up with sustainable responsible solutions.

Aqu 20, 01 / Jan 20, 17 02:04 UTC

deleted

  Updated  on Can 05, 01 / May 25, 17 19:11 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: leaving asgardia

Ari 21, 01 / Mar 18, 17 18:03 UTC

From my current perspective, this topic is currently quite hypothetical, as I seriously doubt that we will need to worry about it for quite some time. As it stands Asgardia hasn't stated any intentions to have a land based country... so regardless of whether or not refugees are accepted, where would they go for safe haven? Without a land base the answer is: nowhere! With that it would be senseless to accept a refugee when you have nowhere to place them... might aswell be giving them an Asgardia badge and hoping that ends their worries.

Ok so thats one standpoint. On the other hand, If in the far future Asgardia decides to have a land base or manages to build an actual space colony, then and only then would there be scope for refugees to physically (intentional wording) be addressed. With that though there would be a lot of questions... Whilst it goes without question (at least in my mind) that helping other people escape the very institutions that have held back the progression of our species, the method by which we do this could get complicated. Existing countries have been dealing with this for decades and they still haven't quite perfected the system. I suppose we might have some advantage as an 'outsider' nation but I wont go too much into that, I'm not a politician and this is just my personal perspective only.

On a third hand... Say we manage to realise all this and get into a position where refugees have to be addressed, Asgardia would need to be able to enforce the both the protection and control of said refugees. This would support the Idea (separate forum thread) that Asgardia would need a physical security force. Additionally, we would need to integrate them into the society, again im not going to go into how this would be because its not something that I'm experienced in. However, given the ideals of Asgardia, would it not be progressive to ensure that those who would seek asylum in Asgardia are prepared to accept the directive of Asgardia, as well as to contribute in some meaningful way to Asgardia, this may mean some effort on our parts to ensure that they are given the tools to do this, in the end it would be doing them a double favour and ensuring that Asgardia can maintain its progress at the same time.

My view may not be perfect, I admit there's a lot more to this than what I've chosen to give my input on, but I'm open minded, so I'm happy for anyone to take apart what I've said here, In the end its an interesting topic, one that personally I dont feel we need to spend too much effort on in the present time but is still worth considering because who knows where we might be in the future. Its wise to be prepared and consider things ahead of time too.

Ari 24, 01 / Mar 21, 17 13:42 UTC

Refugees... how the hell would they get to Asgardia?

It isn't like they can climb a wall, sneak across a border, or hitchhike to get there. It is going to take a tremendous amount of MONEY to be able to pay for the space ticket (or whatever) to get to Asgardia. They can't exactly stow away on board a spacecraft, given that an extra 50 pounds would be noticed, let alone a full-grown adult with their life's possessions.

I do not see this as a problem we will need to concern ourselves with any time in the immediate future.

Ari 26, 01 / Mar 23, 17 17:32 UTC

Right now, I don't see refugees as a topic for Asgardia.

WE HAVE NO PHYSICAL SPACE FOR THEM TO GO NOW.

Asgardia would need estate on earth's soil to be able to even admit them. First we may have embassies that could house perhaps a very few people. But without full-fletched colonies, we can't accommodate them. We can't even accommodate our own people for several decades.

Also. refugees can't rivet their own habitats and plant some potatoes in outer space. Please be realistic.

Ari 27, 01 / Mar 24, 17 05:25 UTC

First another question must be answered before this one can be addressed and that is, will these people even be able to reach Asgardia in order to seek refuge? I do not see how that could be possible, not for refugees who, had to leave home with only what they could carry for whatever reason. Furthermore, the question assumes that Asgardia would have some kind of shuttle service operating. That could be used to ferry the folks to Asgardia and that each trip would be free. Another thing I do not see happening, because even if Asgardia does have a shuttle service for use by it's citizens. The fuel costs make free trips into space impossible. So, I have to vote no, not because I am against the idea, but because I do not see how a nation with no Earthly borders can possibly take in refugees