Aqu 20, 01 / Jan 20, 17 13:59 UTC

Re: No need for military.  

Why not just have a "national guard" that trains once a month or so. We could also have everyone that becomes of age and are eligible to go to "training" to familiarize themselves with a weapon and the such nothing major. Have a police/security force that focuses on defense only.

Aqu 20, 01 / Jan 20, 17 16:07 UTC

Whilst the "military" term may be up for debate I strongly believe that there should be security, as a person with security experience I know that when your organisation is in the spotlight, at any time there is a risk to those individuals comprising the organisation, there will always be a disruptive element of human society. Thus I believe that regardless of whether or not Asgardia constructs a military force, there should at least be a security force.

Aqu 20, 01 / Jan 20, 17 16:32 UTC

United Nations already have a peace keeping force and as of now Asgardia will not need an additional military. Yes security force will be required, You can call it police or SWATs etc, that will be more then sufficient to protect 1.5 million people. In my experience i believe that essential part of eradicating crime is to have a robust, enriched and well equipped Security teams both of Physical & IT.

Aqu 20, 01 / Jan 20, 17 18:50 UTC

I hear what you're saying but my suggestion was much simpler, I do agree that there should be a cyber security team but there should also be personal security, whilst this can be outsourced, it would be far more efficient and secure to have an internal security task force. I wouldnt call it police or SWAT because until we have our own continent or piece of land there wont be any need. but there will come a need for mobile security personnel who can travel with and protect individuals working for and with asgardia in the near future, thats if this goes in the direction I think it might.

Aqu 21, 01 / Jan 21, 17 18:29 UTC

I would like to add that I think having a security/defence operation would be essential.

For instance, I would propose that all Asgardians undertake a basic training in such disciplines as Aikido, it's purely a defensive form of using one's attacker energy against them |(I don't practise myself, but would). Also, couple this with a spiritual defensive discipline. I believe we should all be prepared in the event of sudden attack whether it is physical, psychological or spiritual.

Research should be prioritised for defensive energy based shielding over anything like advanced weaponry. A suitable defence can always redirect any attack, back upon the attacker. Our free will may be of peace, but others of a lower vibration or negative polarity disregard others free will and do as they please.

Being able to stand our ground in the face of any attack or natural calamity should be a group effort shared by all, but mastered by some.

Aqu 24, 01 / Jan 24, 17 11:50 UTC

I'd suggest having a computer simulation on board with the self defense force in order to run war simulations to see where we could focus our defenses the most or to see what is lacking when we are prepared to see what else can be improved upon physically. I would recommend teaching everyone (I mean everyone down to the children in this case.) martial arts and having an hour or two in the day dedicated to this. Afterwards an hour to 30 minutes of silent mediation or prayer. (Really your choice there.)

Pis 26, 01 / Feb 23, 17 01:38 UTC

Military is not always associated with violence it can be a protection of a nation and necessary for future defense even if there is no current threat to a nation. This is why military is necessary.

Pis 26, 01 / Feb 23, 17 02:41 UTC

Defense forces, possibily. There's a big difference, and it matters.

Realistically, the only thing we have to "defend" right now, and for realistically the next few decades is a few bits of IT. When we start putting things into space it's general remoteness serves as it's best defence and when there's serious things on the table you'll only get close enough to be a threat if it lets you. Considering the likely spread throughout just this solar system within the first 150 years of establishing ourselves in the stars suggests unless this is entirely a military operation(and the "demiliterised free base of scientific knowlege in space" suggests otherwise) then forces will be spread too thin and response times - discounting severe advancements in propulsion technologies to science fiction standards - are likely to be far too long to be of use. Search and rescue team floating midway between Jupiter and Saturn might still take two weeks or more to be able to respond to a crew exploring the Tolkien ranges. And that's just getting to Titan, from somewhere relatively close. locating them on the surface and reaching them is extra.

Ari 11, 01 / Mar 8, 17 17:07 UTC

We currently still not capable of even effectively forming and running a country let alone having a standing military. However, if you ever reach that point I would recommend something similar to SDF (Self Defense Force) or something to maintain peace and security for us. For those who say we have no obligation to defend or interfere on Earth, even if we as a nation attempt to stay out of all conflicts on earth and beyond (assuming there will be inevitable conflict between humans or another species) our own species has a history of dragging others into war and strife. If Asgardia truly becomes large and more prominent in the future that will invite conflict whether we go seeking it or not. Humans throughout history resort to violence when other options were readily available. Asgardia should never go seeking conflict but the SDF should be capable of defending itself while also being offensive just in case. Now the offense should not be taken from a minor incident but as a last resort. In the future perhaps we will evolve or achieve a level of technology where fighting is no longer necessary. That day is not today or for the foreseeable future.

  Last edited by:  Joel Garcia (Asgardian)  on Tau 03, 01 / Mar 28, 17 19:24 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Ari 11, 01 / Mar 8, 17 17:50 UTC

The best warriors are always those who are defending their home. They have a greater motivation than any invader to see the battle finish quickly and decisively.

So, yes, a self-defense force involving every able-bodied citizen would be impossible to invade without innumerable resources.

Ari 11, 01 / Mar 8, 17 21:13 UTC

There are some of you suggesting that we rely on the UN, the armies of other nations, or nothing at all to defend our country. I say that this is an extremely foolish idea, and that Asgardia needs to be able to defend itself.

I propose that we adopt an Asgardian Defence Force (ADF) in the constitution.

What happens when the terrorists come? What happens when someone becomes mentally disturbed and violent? What happens when someone decides that they want to shoot up a school, or a mall, or a hospital? Are we going to fight them away by throwing compliments at them? Of course not.

Our country needs the capability to respond to threats with the appropriate amount of force. What will happen when some Earth nations, who are not bound by the same values and treaties as we are, decides to puts a big fat target on the heads of all Asgardia? Our country would not last a day without some sort of "military".

Many people brought up that our intention (as described in "Concept") is to have peace in space. How will we maintain such peace? "If you are prepared for peace, you must also be prepared for war."

The idea of "peace in space" combined with demilitarization frustrates me, because my belief is that the concept itself is not achievable. It is impossible to expect and demand utter peace in and around space when we ourselves do not know what to expect in space, and when we do not have any means of protecting ourselves or enforcing such a peace. Additionally, it is impossible to expect and demand peace in space when we as human beings are clearly not at peace with ourselves or our planet. I respect Dr. Ashurbeyli and his work greatly, but I feel that we must make peace with our own wonderful, ever-evolving planet and our own wonderful, ever-evolving species before we even begin to try to maintain peace in space.

There are elements on earth who are ransacking our planet. They are RIGHT NOW committing economic terrorism, militaristic terrorism, domestic terrorism, and even cyber terrorism. I think we've all read more than enough history about corrupt Earth governments to know that these terrorists will be dying to get into space and ransack Asgardia, too. I think we've watched enough "real news" to know how dangerously oppressive governments can be to undefended citizens. This, above all other reasons, is why we need the ADF: we need to protect our values and liberties. We need to know that in the event our government turns on us, there are men and women who are ready, willing and able to defend in absence of the government: PRAESIDIUM SINE IMPERIUM.

(P.S: EDF is one of my favourite games.)

  Last edited by:  Shawn Crawford (Asgardian)  on Ari 11, 01 / Mar 8, 17 21:18 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times
Reason: Postscript added

Ari 11, 01 / Mar 8, 17 23:52 UTC

The concept of UN is an interesting one - does the UN have a space program? What sort of response times would we be looking at?

What happens when the terrorists come? Well, I know firms like the CIA and Mi5 have a lot of clout, but I doubt they can setup a cell that can get itself into an active launch site, and the prelaunch medical will find even internal devices. I really wouldn't think they can do much to us on that angle, it's their cyberterrorism, I mean defence branch that we'd need to watch out for, and if we attempt space with any of the hardware they've already backdoored, then we deserve what happens next.

What happens if some Earth nations puts some big fat target on all of Asgardia? Not a lot really. We laugh? How do you propose they actually engage this target? Any floor lift or near-Earth launch would provide plenty of mitigation time, and the options for successful mitigation of inbound ballistics are numerous. The entire concept of trying to down a supermassive structure in orbit is rediculous within itself - many large chunks are likely to survive re-entry and cause much widespread damages, and the rest of the smaller debris will reign havok upon the existing satellite networks. No matter what, win lose or draw, that isn't working out well for them. To assume troops, they can't lift enough fast enough - they will be outnumbered, severely. And compressed into a single point, the airlock. Which should make it easy to cable-tie them and remove them of weaponry as they cross the threshold, or if feeling less civilised simply mow them down. Assuming we allowed them to pressurise the airlock, or didn't overpressurise it to kill them and detach their ship when they open their airlock and the pressure hits their hull - Assuming for some reason we actually allowed them to gain sufficient proximity to consider using the airlock. There's multiple non-lethal means to ensure distance is maintained, and if feeling less civilised the low weight requirements for escaping Earth's gravity will mean there's literally no armor and a common pencil is likely all the weaponry required to destroy it.

Demiliterisation was a specific concept for a specific reason. Armies do not bring peace, they are tools of war. We have no use for tools of war, any attempts at physical or digital attack should be compensatable with ease. Peace within our species would certainly be required to maintain peace in space - this is unlikley to happen with something to fight, as opposed to something that continually shrugs off their best swing and laughs until the futility is obvious and they stop trying. The war is won once the enemy no longer has the will to fight.

  Updated  on Ari 12, 01 / Mar 9, 17 01:31 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Ari 12, 01 / Mar 9, 17 12:53 UTC

No, as long as there are no alien invaders we're safe. If that happens, we have Earth to back us up, because if Asgardia gets blown up by them, there wouldn't be a whole lot of time left for Earth.

I don't see how militarization of space would affect anything, as long as we're not threatening anybody, nobody would harm us. Asgardia is the epitome of peace and fraternity; it's what were based on.

Ari 12, 01 / Mar 9, 17 13:55 UTC

Putting military assets into space will freak everyone on Earth out. Every nation, every citizen. People are not rational. People are frightened animals, looking for potential threats. A military asset in space that can shoot anywhere and have very little retaliation against it is a very strong threat to all nations and citizens of Earth.

Please do not let idealism stand in the face of realism. One quick look at most talk shows in America should demonstrate exactly how paranoid and self-delusional most humans are.

Never underestimate the power of stupid.

Ari 13, 01 / Mar 10, 17 16:27 UTC

+1 Phicksur, when policemen carry out their assigned duties, people cry police brutality and scurry off to their 'safe spaces'. Fair and just opinions against their own opinions make them cry like [HTML_REMOVED]. I wonder how they'll react to a space armoury pointed at them?

P.S. is it un-Asgardian to swear?