Leo 09, 01 / Jun 26, 17 23:39 UTC

Re: Petition: Cancel of the current vote and creating of a new craft of the consititution  

@lorditerator - Just wanted to let you know that your official petition may be deleted due to you not displaying your real name nor having a photo of yourself as your profile picture. You might want to update it before it's noticed and the petition is taken down.

I also encourage everyone who supports this petition to do the same just in case your support is disqualified due to the same issues.

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 12:19 UTC

@RebekahBerg
Ok, I changed my profile picture, thank you for the warning. My real name had set to visible to registered asgardians. Is that enough? And why do supporters have to do this as well? To get counted you have to be a verified, so level 2, citizen. So only logged in users can partake. What has the profile picture to do with the possibility to partake? I mean... purely hypothetical everyone can put a photo of someone else online and no one has the possibility to verify that since we have no in-person verification.

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 12:20 UTC

Fuck that.

1) Nowhere in the rules for these forums do you specify that we need to use an accurate picture of ourselves. I like my online avatar.
2) You are just making up new hoops to have to jump through to get anything accomplished that is not completely in line with leadership's or administration's goals.
3) You are threatening to remove people's voices and an already accepted petition because it no longer meets your newly created rules.

This is pure and simple authoritarianism. You don't like what it being said, so you create rules to prevent it from being said.

You might be able to get the sheep to tow the line, dancing through your hoops in the desperate hope that Asgardia will free them of the responsibilities of life in some imaginary utopia you are presenting, but the vast majority of us know how to read, and how to think, and can see the writing on the wall for what it is. 

This is a cult, masquerading as a nation. 

EHN

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 14:07 UTC

@lorditerator - Thank you for doing so, it's appreciated since this is an important petition. I'm still not sure about your username I will definitely check into it. Also, I suggested the people who signed may want to update as petitions are usually signed with real names. So it should be no different within Asgardia.

@Phicksur - Actually we are not making up new hoops, it is common sense that if you are going to take part in a petition you would use your real name and visual profile to do so. I know I wouldn't sign a petition that is going to a government if they had a bag over their head or was wearing a clown costume or dressed as a lemur. I would worry that the petition would not be taken seriously. Also, if I was in a governmental position that reviewed petitions for validity I would immediately dismiss 'Lord Thunderthighs' or 'Miss Kitty Queen' as a valid signee. We are not removing anyone's voices, we're asking them to be accountable and honest. Also, I don't want this petition to be disqualified for any reason since it is a hot topic within the community, which is why I posted. If I did, would I say anything? No, I wouldn't. 

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 15:39 UTC

I'm sorry @RebekahBerg, but I am not buying what you are shovelling for 2 reasons:

  1. Asgardia already has the registration details of everyone that participated in this forum. You already know who "Lord Thunderthighs" or "Miss Kitty Queen" is!
  2. You have no way of verifying any images on profiles as being authentic. I could post an image of someone who looks like George Clooney - I could be his doppelganger or I could be a red haired albino.

These new rules (and deviation from other rules) seem to emerge exclusively to resolve "inconvenient" issues for Asgardia. In this case, the issue of the validity of the constitutional "vote" will not go away. "Disqualifying" this petition would remove a major source of dissent and debate on this issue.

Be careful. You may want Asgardia to be a free nation, but "freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate."

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 16:03 UTC

@Phicksur @Scarbs Agree, this is ridiculous...

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 16:46 UTC

Hi,

It is up to you to accept or not however it is the truth. 

Also I am not "shovelling" anything. We have treated the dissenting voices with respect and listened to what they are saying. We respect their right to speak their thoughts and their participation within Asgardia. Not once have we used disparaging language in addressing any member if the community. Not once have we referred to their thoughts or opinions in a negative manner. Not once have we outright dismissed their text. Not once have we used swear words in regards to what a community member has said.

We would expect the same from the community in return. 

Regards,

Rebekah Berg

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 17:17 UTC

A petition is a public form of protest, so while the officials of Asgardia may know exactly who has signed, the general public here will not.  

We cannot be consistently asking for Transparency in Government processes and then turn around and be all shocked when reciprocation is desired.  It's a two way street we have here everyone.  

(and when I get over my horrible sunburn I'll be putting up a recent photo of myself also)

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 17:17 UTC

@RebekahBerg: I really think the username should not be accounted in for such things. We have provided our real names for the level 2 registration, so I think that would be enough. Otherwise why should there be an additional user name since it has to be exactly the real persons name? In fact the asgardian ID should be sufficient since you can check if that ID belongs to a verified citizen.
My username lorditerator is my personal nickname what people call me in real live. And every asgardian can look up my name, Oliver Otte, in my profile. So I really think and hope it is ok that i use my current username.

With best regards.

p.s.: I would have been nice, if these information were available sooner ;)

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 17:41 UTC

Hi Oliver,

You have a point and I will ask if that is good enough and will get back to you on it.

Cheers 

Rebekah

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 17:47 UTC

Petitioners will show (already registered) "private data(*)" as soon as all officials will do. If it "makes sense" to know, as @Buck Rogers is stating, the real name/picture of one who filed a petition, it makes far more sense to know faces and data of who is administering Asgardia at the moment.
You told us, many times, they "can't be revealed 'cause of privacy", but it seems the same privacy is not a concern, for you, when it comes to citizens.

P.S.
Maybe you, Rebekah, failed to notice we said nearly nothing, when our Profiles' flags have been all set to "Visible to: everyone", even if that data was "private/not visible" before, when the website have been rebuilt, few time ago. But we remember it have been done, don't think we can forget it. Maybe one can dig a little into EU personal data protection documents.

(*) marked as "private" or "not public" into the Profile.

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 17:59 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: P.S. added

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 18:18 UTC

Elwe,

We noticed the issue immediately in regards to the profiles and posted everywhere in regards to it to let the community know about it and urge them to update their profile settings. This happened on day one when the new site launched and within the first hour when it was noticed.

We are not asking people to post their addresses or phone numbers or any data that may be used in criminal activities. Just their real name and a real picture if themselves. If you choose to not use your real identity in participating in Asgardia that is your choice not to and accept that you may limit your participation in governmental activities.

Myself and the senior team have not hidden ourselves behind pseudonyms or profile pictures. Lena De Winne has always posted as herself. Dr. Ashurbeyli has always represented himself as himself. 

That is all I am saying in regards to this issue and my apologies to Oliver for hijacking his petition thread with this debate. It was not my intent.

Regards,

Rebekah Berg

Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 19:12 UTC

@RebekahBerg
I don't want to hijak @lorditerator's thread too but, as you answered me, it seems correct to answer you so...

Let me know: you asked Asgardia users to cope with an Asgardia's IT failure? That's interesting... as an IT myself, I can say that the solution was just "a DB query" far from the problem (hint: an "update" query, if you know what I mean). And yes, the data which was flagged for "everyone" view could be used for criminal activities, that's why they was given "you" (Asgardia) under the "privacy" statement, by the way.

That apart, are you saying there are three "senior team" components at all, counting yourself? 'cause that is wat asgardians saw: Igor, Lena, you... ok, four with Dr. Ram Jahku, revealed himself at HK conference. It's just to know as, in the past, all the "management" names have not been revealed "'cause of privacy concerns": if they was yet revealed why telling us that?

By the way, reading the ToS, one can notice that your asking for "real picture and real name" seems explicitly against art. 5 into "your conduct" section:

5. Refrain from posting any personal information of your own such as  your email address, phone number, address, etc., and refrain from  soliciting personal information from any user. However, if you do choose  to post any personal information it means that you are making that  information public and allowing everyone to use and access that  information, and to associate it with you (i.e. your user name and if  applicable any profile photo);

As the real name is a "personal information" which can be associated with user name, one decide by him/herself if to open it to the public: explicitly asking for it is not stated in the ToS but, as a matter of fact, is forbidden.
As @lorditerator told, and despite the nick can change, the ID handler will remain, and it's the one and only way to know if someone is, or is not, an "L2 asgardian user", taking in count you, the administration, having no official documents, have no way to certify the real name is "real" and the "real picture" is really of the registered user at all so, by the way, why asking? Differently from a legally formed government, you've no documents at all so, telling us "others does it" have no base at all.

  Last edited by:  Luca Coianiz (Asgardian)  on Leo 10, 01 / Jun 27, 17 19:15 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: grammar

Leo 11, 01 / Jun 28, 17 00:48 UTC

@RebekahBerg - I noticed you left out "Not once have we quickly and quietly deleted posts from the forum in the hope no-one will notice". Does the name EyeR ring a bell?

Leo 11, 01 / Jun 28, 17 01:14 UTC

Come on Jason. You and I know this is not true. I saw a numbet of posts EyeR made towards the end of his involvement with Asgardia. There one minute and gone the next. No explination as to why and unless people like myslef raised the issue, nothing would have been said about it.