Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 00:11 UTC

Re: Petition: Cancel of the current vote and creating of a new craft of the consititution  

@BetterMorrow In order to keep the forum uncluttered we will be closing the other 2 copies of this post and scheduling them for removal.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 00:36 UTC

Other two? I only posted one topic and replied here. Where are the others?

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 00:42 UTC

I, Eugenio Scalfi from Italy, support this petition.

  Last edited by:  Eugenio Scalfi (Asgardian)  on Jun 21, 17 / Leo 04, 01 22:36 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 00:59 UTC

Technically by law, pursuant to Black's Law Dictionary, the very definition of a "referendum" to ratify the Constitution cannot be held or voted on by a non-citizen or under duress - such as loss of Citizenship - or it voids the vote.  I signed up in October but applications were "lost".  The law is very clear on this issue in offer of a contest or referendum, that those persons entitled to the decision not be disenfranchised.  However, in participation of a body politic the compliance with the law is set whereby the majority of the parties pass such element by a quorum.    The word - if not defined - is greather-than 50% of the body politic (potential votes).  It can be defined differently, prior the first vote, but cannot be altered after voting begins.  

So, while we are celebrating the ratification of the Constitution today, less than 32,000 people have accepted the Constitution (voted in the affirmative) for it, despite a claim of over 200,000 registered members.  

Having formed 3 companies over 25 years and operated the Board of Directors and Shareholders meetings for all three firms, I can help with this.

At present, there is no need to hold a referendum in the formation of a new nation under its own Sovereignty, but for the compliance with tradition and language of offer (at law).  It can be deemed by the present officer (Head of State) these terms are the terms of the agreement, and acceptance and adoption required to received benefits.  This is not democratic, in essence, but is not objectionable as adoption of amendments (not revision) are open to the members (who have accepted the initial bylaws) by petition.  Further, that one such amendment shall provide for the adoption of a new Constitution or Articles of State, under presumption of a defined quorum of those persons recognized as the body politic, presumably "Citizens".  

I've spent 16 years dealing with this sort of (Constitutional) law in civil rights disputes with the United States and inter-member-state disputes of the most serious level.  It sounds like some statements and assertions to encourage the registered applicants (200,000 +) to follow through with an agreement phase for benefits; and to clarify the established status of all persons who registered in the claims of Citizenship made to the public mandatory.  

Adding a "No" does not create a new "active" versus "inactive" status of Citizens.  The last thing Asgardia needs is negative publicity for alienating others.  It is a rough start, but as the Russian Times is now carrying the story - it is time to get things ready.  Member activity is not a good measure, and there are too many website problems to disregard member interest.

Having worked with Adobe and other companies, I would urge these be made a top priority, and a legal counsel established to assure all offers and provisions are consistent.  The forums cannot be used as a solution to mitigate the expectations of new applicants and global media inquiries.  It must be top-down, for awhile.

I, James Allen, Support The Petition

I almost missed this and found my Oct 13 2017 application lost or destroyed, so I would urge a more formal approach to the process while we regard the present articles a "binding draft" to carry out the launch and other applications to satisfy terrestrial government concern; as the legal flaws invalidate the binding power too severely without a formal affirmation and structured rules consistent with conventional terrestrial elections, including adequate notice (30 days).  Votes are also appreciated toward the "Trendsetter" or other mechanisms to facilitate my candidacy in this and other legal and legislative aspects of Asgardia.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 02:27 UTC

It is good to know a fellow scholar is among us, stryx.

Unfortunately, things like laws and rules seem to be somewhat flexible when it comes to our administration. I am not referring to Igor here, for all we know he's being told everything is fine, I am referring to everyone presently under him who is either bending rules to make their objectives or breaking rules and getting Igor to sign off on them as decrees.

Until the truth gets up to the top things will not get better. Even if Igor is perceptive and accepting to change, which we also do not know.


Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 02:40 UTC

@lorditerator Thanks for putting this petition up. 

Hopefully, the people who started this whole thing, will take this petition seriously. Do the necessary revisions, taking people's suggestions into consideration. This they must do, if they want this new nation to continue.

I support this petition.

  Last edited by:  David Lesberg (Asgardian)  on Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 02:42 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 02:59 UTC

Hi! Just popping in. It's great that people are voting in the poll, however we need signatures of the people who signed not clicks of yes and no. So if people do support this petition, please do make sure you comment here so it counts!

Thank you for participating in the process! Much luck with you petition!

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 03:19 UTC


  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Jul 31, 17 / Vir 16, 01 14:35 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: (redacted)

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 03:22 UTC

@RebekahBerg(Asgardian, Lead Admin) on 19 June 2017, 2:59 a.m.

Hi! Just popping in. It's great that people are voting in the poll, however we need signatures of the people who signed not clicks of yes and no. So if people do support this petition, please do make sure you comment here so it counts!
Thank you for participating in the process! Much luck with you petition!

By "need signatures," do they need to be hand drawn? Or, can a "electronic signature" be accepted? Can it be as simple as people submitting their profile names and declared support of this action?

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 03:23 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 03:30 UTC

Petitions work just as if you were going around and gathering them. People comment here that they support it with their name so the OP can track them and add them to their petition document when they submit them. It's quite simple really.

Also, asking people to hand write signatures on a forum wouldn't work, don't you think? It would add a level of complication that would make things much harder to do.

Again, I wish the OP luck with his petition!

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 03:35 UTC

Thanks for the clarification!

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 04:32 UTC

As far as I can tell, no time limit was placed on the ability to collect names for the petition. In fact, the petition won't even be considered unless the necessary number of signatories is met. As such, no time limit exists.


Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 04:32 UTC

This is NOT how any sort of legitimate voting system works. How can one want to create a functioning government in this fashion?

A legitimate vote will have the option to vote for, against or abstain. A ballot with only a “for” option is no different than the sham presidential elections we see in modern day North Korea or in Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

As a legitimate, registered Asgardian, I am STRONGLY in opposition to this kind of voting.

And yes, the proposed Constitution has several very major flaws and missing items.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 06:06 UTC

My associate and I were discussion this tonight, and remarked that the standard vote should:

1.  Be registered for members by private-key-infrastructure (PKI).  

      OpenPGP and login-based credentials are a strong solution, to prevent duplicate voting and voter fraud.

2.  All votes should include a Yes and No option.  In this way all registered users have voted Yes, No, or abstained.

3.  As in all quorums, only the total of the YES versus NO votes constitute the final count of votes - regardless of the number of potential (registered) voters, on most question of minor importance. Major questions may require a minimum number of votes to qualify as binding, to prevent a minority from seizing control during a period of communication or access loss, and allow a minimum of 30 days to place votes.  Times should also be defined.  30 terrestrial days is suggested by standard for legal notices, although persons in conflict zones may be out of touch for much longer.  Major elections should allow longer periods to vote.

4.  While the new jurisdiction (sovereignty) is not subject to these guidelines, the use of the language (English as such) does reserve certain words to the English definitions of the terms in contract law (Articles of Rome, International Law); so using the guidelines to meet these requirements without excess verbage is advisable.  It simplifies things.

5.  The examples of abuse I can give you are many, the worst being the "Voting" system in Klie Entertainment products that let users "DELETE THE WORLD" if at any time three people log on to a server with any number of maximum users, simply because two-out-of-three is a quorum.  

6.  I would STRONGLY suggest an iphone/android app to facilitate this voting system, but security and compliance issues exist in such a solution.  Notifications will faciliate easier awareness of issues and pending activity in the roles of specific voters and classes (job duties).  The ASGARDIA tablet app would be a strong project.

7.  First we have to fix the website.  Javascript breaks on many forms.  I would recommend PHP/MySQL on Linux for future projects, as JAVA and Javascript both have a very short lifespan.  HTML5 with PHP is practically magic.  It also creates faster analytics for real-time reporting.

8.  No penalty for not voting should be amended to the Constitution, as civic obligations must not be foist on the public lest they resent the duty and arbitrarily vote no on all issues not of interest or entertainment value to themselves.  Nor should Citizenship be subject to suspension or removal as rights are not rights with grant of privilege, while rights to participate in voting and other rewards may be suspended - let us never eject people who are human beings from our view of rights upheld by Asgardia.

9.  The duration of the Captcha also expires before most articles are ready, and needs tweaking.

Jun 19, 17 / Leo 02, 01 07:18 UTC

I support this petition.