[OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia

[OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Oriane Kaesmann(Global Admin) on 27 December 2016, 11:30 a.m.

“Economic and social progress cannot sustainably be achieved without respect for the rule of law, democratic consolidation, and effective human rights protection ; each of which requires a well-functioning judiciary that can interpret and enforce the laws equitably and efficiently”. - Court Performance around the World : a Comparative Perspective, by Maria Dakolias (Yale Human Rights and Development Journal Volume 2 article 2)

In that perspective, I would like to highlight three important points :

1) The judicial branch of Asgardia should be part of law enforcement. What is your opinion in that regard ?

2) Should we have an Appellate Court, which decision would be binding Trial Courts, along with a Supreme Court maybe, and how could we organise that system ? Appelate Courts : "If either party disagrees with the decision in the trial court, they can appeal, asking a higher court to review the decision. The outcome of appeals cases have the potential to affect large numbers of people, because these decisions are binding on district courts within the circuit. No new evidence is presented, the judge(s) simply review the materials from the original trial and determine whether the lower court made the correct legal decision".

3) Part of the Community suggested we make use of the progress of artificial intelligence to automate certain cases resolutions. What would you suggest in that regard ?

  Last edited by:  Oriane Kaesmann (Global Admin)  on 27 December 2016, 11:32 a.m., edited 1 time in total.

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Juttatron(Asgardian) on 27 December 2016, 8:48 p.m.

1) Is there any one indisputable reason that any Asgardian citizen should place 100% trust in their laws and those whom uphold them? Therefore any one reason we should not consider all branches responsible for justice in any form an arm of law enforcement as a whole?

2) This feels like planning to fail. As in building a contingency into a system because we know we'll need it. Should we not design a single court where binding decisions can be made reliably, responsibly and understanbly in the first instance? This would increase efficiency and trust would be inherent.

3) Would it be prudent to configure environments for developing, testing and trialling a system of this nature concurrently with implementing the resolution of point 2? We would be able to instil the very same values that our principal system embodies in its foundations.

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: EyeR(Asgardian) on 28 December 2016, 3:55 p.m.

AI is certianly the "way forwards" with regards to ensuring that the decisions made are free from personal bias, emotional contamination etc.

This could handle the bulk of descisions providing data on how this conclusion was reached at the time of the desicision. This could potentially be a panel of AI each fed different training materials in order it may focus on more specific areas, and majority rule of the panel.

In cases where one or more parties disagree with the AI's descision, then a human panel can assess if the AI made the "correct" descision and rectify if not. The outcome of these trials can be used for further training materials for the AI to assist in making future descisions in the expected manner.

I feel strongly that law enforcement and justice dispensement should be clearly seperated in order to prevent situations where an individual is able to abuse their position at the detriment of another individual for personal reasons.

Assuming they have had say in their formation, then there's no particular reason Asgardians should distrust the law itself, however, undisputedly those who uphold them are fallable. Even without malicous intent, it's possible to make genuine mistakes. As the reality of situations is rarely as black and white as the policies that govern them in the case of such mistakes, there should be some oppertunity afforded to have this corrected.

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Drac(Asgardian) on 29 December 2016, 12:56 a.m.

Not really a part of the legal system but more of the safety and law enforcement side. I would like to see any type of station/colony/base have 24/7 CC surveillance on everything. Nothing monitored by people but everything kept on record for a amount of time to be used in the justice system or in the event of a accident. Privacy would be ensured by the fact that the footage would not be reviewed by a person unless it is needed for a investigation.

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Carlitos(Asgardian) on 30 December 2016, 3:27 p.m.

Good day,

1) No entity should have more power.

2) & 3) AI/Pragmatic Laws, a Court/if context needed*, and Mass Consensus of x# of briefed citizens + votes by professional Asgardian judges (the ratio should be at least +1% in favor of "citizens votes" in a "50-50" power of definite sentence shared between citizens and the system).

It should be the responsibility of the Ministry of Information and Communications to define platforms that can achieve an impartial and balanced delivery of data for anyone and everyone involved as well as a secured, user-friendly "as it should always be" voting platform and record.

3 levels that are complementary, possible with available technology and the participation and collaboration of multiple ministerys.

"The result of this collaborations can be an effective system that can work for TV Shows, Shops, Municipalities and other massContent/Staff/Clients markets and that can be sold."

Logic and common sense should be the root of every law in order to Increase penalties at every level (if context irrelevant*) to discourage delays in the effect of the sentence and proactively use time in the court system.

Great topic, and would appreciate feedback.

Have a nice day,


Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Niko Partanen(Asgardian) on 31 December 2016, 3:09 p.m.

Whatever law enforcement we might use I think it's highly appropriate that they would be 100% transparent.

Like Carlitos said, no entity should have more power, and lack of transparency at law enforcement would give them more power.

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Paul Gibson(Asgardian) on 13 January 2017, 3:26 p.m.

1) The answer to that is really contingent upon the backbone of Asgardia's state as a sovereign entity. Is it a city-state, where it is it's own authority? If that answer is yes then it make sense to merge the two insofar as it is effective, as integrative and extensive training is usually more beneficial. If there are lesser governments such as communities, cities, colonies, or localized governments, the question changes. Then we have to address whether or not we allow local laws based on a contained environment versus a universal law system which is observed regardless of location. In the second example, they may decided to employ their own specialized police in which case it may be more beneficial to separate the entities.

Personally I see more benefit in a merged judiciary/enforcement branch where unilaterally trained officers may be stationed or transferred to any location and will have a similar job at any post.

2) I believe appellate courts are mandatory if we're speaking progressively. Appellate courts oversee the protection of the state and citizenry equally, ensuring that the rights of the individual and the society are equally protected and observed. And when law evolves to suit more modern times, they set precedent over outmoded judgments and the acquisition of new integrative ethical/technological aspects. Depending on how the legal system is organized ( I noticed you utilized circuits) there may be higher level appellate courts, each observing more of a bird's eye view than the last. It is also important to have a check/balance system on judges/juries and the fact finding and decision making process.

3) I partially eluded to this in a different post, but I believe to take the human element out of finding the elements in an offense in law is a grievous error. I'm sure that just like any legal system, there will be various severities of offenses which are classified appropriately. That being said, it is entirely possible, that offenses which are not criminal in nature, i.e. resulting only in a fine or appropriate measure , may one day be automated. But I also noticed that rehabilitation/punishment is a hot subject here, in which case automation would make a poor substitute. Ultimately, the people, or their elected representatives for society, should make the call on how violators are dealt with, and not a machine which cannot consider matters prior to a sentence or judgment.

Thanks for the questions!

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: ChristopherBoardman(Asgardian) on 14 January 2017, 12:29 a.m.

  1. Yes. I do believe asgardians should trust the law, law enforcement officials and the whole judicial system to make sure that law will be protected and "enforced" Also at the same time protect human rights.
  2. I also believe that the appellate courts are mandatory Appellate courts oversee the protection of the state and citizenry equally, ensuring that the rights of the individual. So this must be put in place and maintained over the years . Citizens should fully trust the courts and respect any decisions that they make. As long as it is lawful and abiding to our constitution.
  3. Yes punishment should be given and justice should be served, I agree with someone in this forum for the most part. Question is. How can we punish? We do not have any jail cells or anything at this moment in time unless we have our own private prisons and work on rehabilitation process for those violators. Are we thinking more along the lines of when and if we have a suitable colony on orbit with the appropriate technology, will we house inmates in space? I would hope not. A dangerous scenario would unfold if so. Putting rest of inhabitants at risk. So in the far future. I'd suggest inmates should be on earth and we should have our own island. Which has been mentioned quite a few times To bring asgardians together. And thus make things a lot easier. This space nation concept will take some time to get use too. But I'm sure over time.all of us will reach our goals to secure our place in space and the international community

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: Grenstauf(Asgardian) on 18 January 2017, 8:35 p.m.

In response to Niko, Yes what ever the final rules and laws, 100% transparency in their enforcement must be maintained. After all, 'Sunlight is the best disinfectant'.

Re: [OFFICIAL POST] The Court System of Asgardia  

  By: tyriuth(Asgardian) on 18 January 2017, 10:34 p.m.

On the point about Appellate courts, I believe that they would be necessary, especially if we use AI in the court.

If we begin to use AI in the court system, they may not be able to understand the whole scenario which could cause them to make judgments that aren't entirely fair. We still have a long way to go before we get true AI, and until then it would be best if they had human revision. Even after we develop true AI, it would still give us a safety net for if there's a failure in the system.