Sag 17, 01 / Nov 21, 17 23:38 UTC

Re: Money or moneyless?  

Resource Based Economy Defined

We will start with the broad definition and, as we go, we will increasing add focus to the explanation so you can get a better understanding as to what a Resource Based Economy really is.

RBE Definition

The term and concept of a  Resource Based Economy (RBE) was coined in 19?? by Jacque Fresco, the founder of the Venus Project.

A Resource Based Economy (RBE) is defined as: a global socio-economic system that will utilize existing resources (natural and technological) to provide an equitable method of distribution of goods and services in the most humane and efficient manner for the entire population without the use of money, credits, barter, or any other form of symbolic exchange.

We have 5 parts that we will work with and explain:

  • Global: is a modifier for all aspects of the definition of a Resource Based Economy - meaning world-wide, all of the nations of the world working together for the benefit of all of humanity
  • Resources: sharing all of the of the world's various resources : natural (water, minerals, food, etc), technological (manufacturing, computers, intellectual property, etc) and human (personal skills: engineering, agronomy, carpentry, knowledge, etc) shared to solve the problems facing our world
  • Goods and services: sharing all of the world's products that are manufactured or delivered (food, water, clothes, computers) or services (energy, internet, food preparation, home design) rendered to humans
  • Humans: All the worlds, resources and goods and services are there to benefit ALL  humanity and not just a select few.
  • Equitable: is a modifier for goods and services - ensures that ALL of humanity has equal (as equal as possible) access to all goods and services
  • No Money: Perhaps the most important and world-shaking phrase here is 'without the use of money, credits, barter, or any other form of symbolic exchange'; no money. All things are available for free. As was covered in the previous section, money is the creator of most of our world's problems and once we get rid of that and share all the things life will be better for all.

The RBE Trinity

A RBE proposes a design for a global society that has a specific function – maintaining the ecological balance while improving the standard of living for all its members. To achieve a more humane and meaningful approach to shaping civilization the primary guidelines will be these three interdependent ideas:

  1. The intelligent use of science, technology, and manufacturing as the driving force to achieve a truly sustainable future where the primary concern is:
  2. … the protection and sustainable management of the environment and its resources
  3. … for the well-being and benefit of ALL the people of the world.

Here we have 4 terms to work with:

  • Sustainable Management: is a global modifier for all things within RBE. Creating processes that are environmentally friendly, efficient, and automated are very important to making life easier for all of humanity.
  • Technology: creating technology using sustainable processes where the entire lifecycle (manufacturing, delivery, use, and recycling) is environmentally friendly, efficient,  and automated
  • Environment: sustainable management of the environment and its natural resources is of prime concern here which includes efforts to reclaim and repair all environmental damage and to prevent it
  • Humans: creating sustainable manufacturing processes and protecting and fixing the environment to ensure that ALL humanity has a healthy environment to live in

RBE + Trinity

When we put together the diagram for RBE and the Trinity we get something like this:

Key Modifiers: You will note that the key modifiers here are: global, equitable, and sustainable management. RBE works within a methodology that is global, sustainable,  and equitable to help ensure that we have a planet to live on with air to breathe, food to eat, and water to drink and that all people have access to these. Poisoning these things is probably not a smart thing to do.

A global sustainably managed process to manufacture and deliver goods and services equitably to ALL of humanity while protecting and remediating the environment.

  Last edited by:  James O'Neill (Asgardian)  on Cap 09, 01 / Dec 11, 17 20:07 UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: removal of unsanctioned links. mod edit shane watt 11.30.17

Sag 17, 01 / Nov 21, 17 23:43 UTC

Oh. You mean Communism. OK. That makes sense then. Thank you for explaining.

Sag 17, 01 / Nov 21, 17 23:55 UTC

3rd phase of communism:

Achievement of utopia. This phase has never been attained  because it requires that all non-communists be destroyed in order for  the Communist Party to achieve supreme equality. In a Marxist utopia,  everyone would happily share property and wealth, free from the  restrictions that class-based systems require. The government would  control all means of production so that the one-class system would  remain constant, with no possibility of any middle class citizens rising  back to the top. (You can see the full text of the manifesto at this Web site.)

Good luck with that. I guess. *shrug*

Sag 18, 01 / Nov 22, 17 00:35 UTC

No, not communism. Communism still is based in a monetary system and will rely on people to manage it and is typically totalitarian in nature as we have seen historically.
Its ideal are a bit archaic and out of date with the changing times. A issue with this comparison is, of course, the pejorative conntation this has without even researching. Less judgment is good and more research is better.

They do have some similarties, of course if you abstract anything out far enough you can make them the same: a person and a dung beetle are the same : they both are living things, require food, air, and procreate, therefore are the same. A RBE will be more like a technocracy.

Sag 18, 01 / Nov 22, 17 01:09 UTC

Communism Eh? Think 2000 years on a generation shit might achieve Stage 3?

Sag 18, 01 / Nov 22, 17 01:20 UTC

"Less judgment is good and more research is better."

No. Not really in this case.

Communism doesn't work, and your government will fail. Mostly because you are not a "Nation" anyway, but for other ridiculous contradictions as well.

Sag 18, 01 / Nov 22, 17 03:03 UTC

Nope. Not Communism.

Sag 18, 01 / Nov 22, 17 03:09 UTC

"Nope. Not Communism."

That's a great argument. That does it for me. I'm convinced. :-)

Cap 00, 01 / Dec 2, 17 19:40 UTC

Here are some infographics I put together which may be of use:

Mad Max Vs Star Trek (Economies)


Continuum of Capitalism (Oligarchy vs Communism vs Socialism)

  Last edited by:  James O'Neill (Asgardian)  on Cap 01, 01 / Dec 3, 17 05:03 UTC, edited 2 times in total.

Cap 00, 01 / Dec 2, 17 21:00 UTC

There is something of far more value then money for humans and
that is working together for free to one common good goal.

Grtz, Dirk.

Cap 00, 01 / Dec 2, 17 22:28 UTC

That is exactly what a Resource Based Economy is!

Cap 01, 01 / Dec 3, 17 16:01 UTC

I would say take everything good from everywhere and try to use it in the best place possible.
We should refrain from where it comes from, a method is a method, nothing more or less.

Grtz, Dirk.

Cap 02, 01 / Dec 4, 17 07:25 UTC

 I agree with Dr. Loki 🤔

Cap 02, 01 / Dec 4, 17 19:31 UTC

That is exactly what a Resource Based Economy is. =O

My blog post has more information and a study track to guide you in learning about a Resource Based Economy:

The Cancer of Capitalism and Its Antidote

  Last edited by:  James O'Neill (Asgardian)  on Cap 02, 01 / Dec 4, 17 19:31 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Cap 10, 01 / Dec 12, 17 20:44 UTC

There are three forms of cashless society that I can think of. One if where everyone produces goods or services and barters with others to get what they need. The problem with this is that if I am a mechanic and need bread, but the baker does not need a mechanic right now, I have to first find someone that has something to offer the baker and also needs a mechanic. I can't just go get bread. This could potentially be eased with a coop concept where a mechanic, a baker, and and others all come together. The coop then connects everyone's needs to create trade triangles or such.

The second possible system would be a communist society where everything goes to the community and is then redistributed by the community. The challenge with this Is that it becomes difficult to distribute goods equitably while still encouraging maximum production.

The third method is to simply have everyone give everyone else what they have that others need, but again, there is no motivation to work hard and reach optimum production levels.

A cashless society, such as in Star Trek, really requires a surplus economy where there is no limit to what people can have or requires a very well thought out and managed system that rewards people for doing a good job and that fairly distributes the goods. I will poing out, however, that even Star Trek couldn't conceive of a cashless society. Ona a ship where every one is following orders, has uniform lodging provided, has replicators that can provide anything people want, and a captain that oversees any requests for anything outside that, including a request for a new job. Once they mixed civilians in including on Earth or on DS9, once they introduced interaction with those outside the Federationespecially the Ferangi, and once they introduced conditions where replicated items weren't completely unlimited such as on Voyager, some sort of currency or spending allowance had to be introduced in all those cases.

Ultimately what currency provides is the ability to select your priorities of what you want. Unless there is so much abundance that everyone can have everything they could ever want (and I am not saying this isn't someday possible, but right now it isn't the case) than people have to choose what they do and don't want. You can't just give everyone the same because different people want different things. You could potentially have all money issued by the government and let people spend that money on what they need or want, and have everything produced go to the government to sell so that you can ensure equality and make sure everyone gets enough to live on, but you would still need to somehow reward people for producing more difficult products or services or producing better quantity or quality. People are naturally lazy and if there is no potential for reward for going above and beyond, they will do the least that they can get away with. People don't work overtime for free, they don't innovate for free, and they don't work harder for free. They do so because they have something personal to gain from it.

In the end, though, even if you were to go to a society with no currency, it would be complicated and limiting, and I don't really see any advantage to it. There is no cashless economic system that can't be also run with a currency and wouldn't be simpler and more efficient to manage with a currency. The Star Trek ideal that many people fantasize about talks about how there is no money or greed, but the truth is the key to that isn't the lack of currency, it's the lack of scarcity. Scarcity is still a part of our economy no matter what economic system we use. In Star Trek they have no money or greed because everyone gets everything they want, and everyone is forced to provide their services at an equitable level or risk court martial, and are encouraged to function at their best to earn promotion.

Long story short, a cashless society might be a dream of many who have watched Star Trek or who have had money problems, but at the end of the day getting rid of currency isn't as practical as it seems and wouldn't solve the problems we like to think it would anyway. Instead of trying to dream up a way to eradicate what has become a symbol for our problems, let's instead focus our attention on developing or identifying an economic system that will actually help to solved those problems.