Dec 28, 16 03:25 UTC

The Taboo subject: TAXES  

Nobody likes to pay taxes, but they are mandatory to any society who want to function properly. How will we build the taxing system? How will we establish a tax scale knowing that depending of the home country and profession citizens have very different income (for example: asking 10 USD monthly to a US teacher is more than acceptable for him, but asking the same to a teacher from Ghana or India and it's possible you won't have the same answer)

We'll need to ask to pay taxes, whenever citizens are agree or not. We'll have to give some advantages to those who pay and those who not. We'll have to establish a fair taxing system.

I'm not a specialist in taxes questions, just conscious that they're an essential part of any working society. Why not establishing a "public service"that can replace a tax payment for example (eg: I give 10 hours/month of my time to translate some administrative texts that the administration need, and this will dispense me to pay taxes).

All of this are ideas, What are yours about the Tax theme?

Dec 28, 16 08:38 UTC

Replace taxes with donations.

Grtz, Dirk.

  Last edited by:  Dirk Baeyens (Asgardian)  on Dec 28, 16 08:38 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Dec 28, 16 09:34 UTC

Agreed with Dirk ..... Taxes are for people Living in a physical country, it will not work with US ,since we already have to pay ours actual country taxes and some people are already on the limit of money , if we make donations it will be voluntary ,maybe the money that we will gain will be less that with taxes but it will be for the great good of nation

Dec 29, 16 01:52 UTC

I understand the problem you see with taxes, you are not living in a place called Asgardia, so why should you pay taxes to it and also to the place where you are living?

Well, here is the point, taxes are needed in order to get founding, donations will not work in the long term.

Something interesting about taxes is that some companies might like to create their company in Asgardia, giving Asgardia some income which would be distributed as Asgarian people think is the best way. (Owners of the companyies should be Asgardians and should be active in the ecosystem).

With this we might have issues, as we could then be a fiscal paradise (it would helps us, but taking out the money from the other countries which is not a nice game).

This doesn't mean that we can make both things at the same time (donations + taxes). This could work with a donate whatever you feel you can donate, instead of a fixed value, most people wont donate, but the ones that do would help a lot the community.

Dec 29, 16 21:24 UTC

No taxation without representation.

I'm sure that will resonate with our US based Citizens.

So I argue we must first hold open elections, where taxation policy is freely debated. Thus we can choose our preferred course of revenue solution democratically, before implementation.

I think a radical new approach to revenue is possible. One which is fair and transparent. I beleve Asgardia has the sons and daughters capable of devising such a system. But those ideas should be put to the people to decide before implementation.

Long live Asgadia.

Dec 30, 16 13:11 UTC

I agree that taxation is necessary, but I wonder about setting a sysem that works like this: Each fiscal year, the administration releases the budget requirements, for example, administration cost,(paper.pens,electric bill, etc.....), same for every sector. transparency, I know, not a big thing for current governments, then find a way to set a fair tax to citizens as equal to income as possible, i.e. percentage. I'm just presenting a rough idea, I know it's not a slam dunk, but it's a possible draft to work with.

Dec 31, 16 01:21 UTC

First of all... This is looking like a weird membership and I'm not liking it. Taxes are bad and useless, the government should be capable of "producing" not be carried by people that is everything that is wrong right now with our world, let's not copy that, could we not ride that one into space.

One way government can produce is thru competitive companies for the international markets from all fields, some companies are as big as us, they pay and make a profit, we are supposed to excel, we must and we will.

I heard about this project thru channels I consider trust worthy. So I want to believe in this and I will not talk about that again. I completely refuse to pay taxes, just the word sickenss me. We might as well call it a Maintenance Fee or a Monthly Service fee... Ridiculous.

Why would we be talking about it if we are not a country yet, is there a Bank with a recognized fiscal policy, how would we use that money, paying fees to third parties? why? There's not even a government yet? Not even a constitution! Let's Chill out on that, let us see how it goes step by step no need to bring back Halloween after Chrismast.

This is clearly designed by stages that are completely undisclosed officially by Dr. Ashurbeyli but we can have a glence of the blue prints for a master piece.

Since he kindly asked us to vote for him and we did, let's wait for the basic very complicated maths of the political economy of Asgardia to be worked out by people who can actually do it properly, let's pray for beginnings with a really valued currencies like Time, Gold & Silver... still have doubts on the last 2...

Since this is a concept that is starting technically by sending a satellite that is fully paid into space in a couple of weeks, let's think on how we can work together thanks to this network to design and develop quality services and products that can make money for everybody, then the government can properly channel that wealth from an Asgardian Bank and invest in Space technology and local sources of income.

Now... I'm saying this because I'm pressuming that it will be quite expensive to build that ship, everything that goes in it and keep it working. No need to be shooting ourselves in the foot hey.

Dec 31, 16 02:55 UTC

Taxation is incompatible with freedom for people. It puts massive power in the hands of the people who control use of the taxes. Fees for use of optional services is reasonable as long as the fees are not oppressive and people can reasonably get by without those services.

Jan 3, 17 16:41 UTC

IMHO, YMMV, etc., etc.

The problem with money is that most people don't actually understand what it is or what it's for. For example most would fail to understand when I say money has no value… it exists because we believe it to it exist… it has value because we assign it value. In reality money is merely as a means of communication, and has the ability to appear from nowhere, and has no inherent worth.

So consider a zero based economy, designed in the first instance to leverage the flow of communication and democracy inside an socialist anarchist utopian collective (if it helps imagine the government has warranted to provide a basic standard of living for all pan-humanity). It's an economy that is designed to facilitate the flow of intangibles, so don't go thinking it allows you to buy "Stuff" just yet.

Every year each citizen-subject-person is awarded a stipend of #31,337 dollar-pounds Who cares where it's coming from merely that the issuing agency is trusted and the system is regulated (it's an inflationary currency by design - although this matters little). With this money goes the following tax regime: 5% is for Family, 10% for your Church, 20% for your Nation, 15% for your Globe, and the remaining 50% is for your self.

Faith is an unusual concept so let me just say that no matter what my stated allegiance to any specific faith I would have to ask for the Church of Secular Humanism to be considered as my Church and that my tax be paid there.

Now throw away your hierarchical models of government and authority and consider the phrase "put your money where your mouth is" in a world where the Senate is regarded as an open forum for the all the people and no man stands above another except by consent. In this situation money a becomes a flexible mechanism of allocating limited resources to the resolution of the unlimited wants of man; approximately #15 dollar-pounds per person per hour. A granular system whereby mankind can leverage a responsive and adaptive democracy in other words.

You "buy" your senators by contributing to those whose rhetoric impresses you, allowing them proportionally more time, and their views more weight. You sponsor Senate backed think tanks - select committees - because the subject is one you support and your money democratises the outcome. Collective bargaining and party politics are supported via the concepts of the Church, the Nation, and Global, an enablement leading to democratic and accountable mechanisms of government open to free marked forces mitigated by a fair and equitable system of Justice. The money will also serve to focus resources to get stuff done.

To be fair the money also allows you to tell the living from the dead, when you're gone you quit spending. One also suspects savings should be depreciated and one should use your money to maximise the intangible offered by your Culture's value added process. One should also realise that in the final analysis that a fiscal profit motive is a corrupt influence and that money should flow back to the issuing entity and offset the initial grant… two sides to the bank account perhaps: Mana from heaven, Soma from man.

In a similar manner, as just as with the currencies of today, Dollar-Pounds could be used buy "stuff". Value added Tax is inevitable, and one has to realise that nations require tax to provide the basic functions of society in a way that leverages economies of scale in a manner unavailable to nominal citizens. However one should insist that ultimately Taxation be regarded as value-for-money, and paying your tax makes you a stake-holder/share-holder in a system which must likewise maintain an open democracy.

(the above is for informational purposes only and should not be considered an endorsement for any specific policies practices or beliefs, nor indeed should you assume it to be well thought out or indeed the working of a sane Mind :-)

Jan 4, 17 03:17 UTC

Ok, I understand to an extent, of whats said here, and it does to some extent make sense, we pay for everything as a group, as needed, correct? or am i misunderstanding? not a argument, im open to everything, but maybe im dull in the polotics range

Jan 4, 17 03:21 UTC

but if government owns the food to sell, does that not set us to tax anyway? they hold the golden genie, we need it and pay, as with power, air...etc...., air being up there some day

Jan 8, 17 21:18 UTC

No taxation, however.

If the Public Bank of Asgardia could be thought of as a co-op.

The investment returns received by the bank on the collective sum of money of over 500,000 people, should be quite a large amount...

At the very least, it would be able to pay for some full time positions in the government, as well as fund beginning infrastructure development.

Jan 9, 17 04:56 UTC

You know i really love these ideas as alternatives to taxes, but we have a reality to face in human nature. Very rarely people like contributing to something they likely won't be rewarded for. Why pay for that bridge if i never use it? Why pay for that family, when they can pay for themselves? Id love for us to evolve into a star trek esque society, but first human nature must be accounted for. People will want some sort of compensation for their work. Where will that come from? it can't just appear out of thin air, otherwise we will end up with the current levels of inflation and greed. Taxes are a necessary part for any ordered society to function because we can't just expect people to donate and live off that. Not in space. Not in those survival conditions where we can't slip on maintenance due to lack of worker compensation. This subject however really shouldn't be that discussed until we a system of citizen representation to discuss this.

Jan 18, 17 20:15 UTC

Without a doubt taxes are vital to every nation. However, given the fact that all citizens live throughout earth, and not one given location. Due to the nature of the unequal distribution of wealth, we can not expect everyone to pay an equal amount. This is my idea, that a monthly subscription be provided where those willing to subscribe, are given some kind of incentive. For example, instead of a citizen certificate printed from my home computer, they can receive an authentic one through the mail. Another example can be the receiving of a magazine once every month or every two months. With information about Asgardia news and behind the scenes information.

Another idea can also be an online store that sells Asgardia merchandise.

Jan 19, 17 09:42 UTC

One of Asgardia's functions in space could be to remove or salvage "space junk" or service existing satellites. This service alone will provide us with raw materials, provide for a safer space environment, and provide a service to existing satellites. I can hear the engineering staff groaning, but if a communications or weather satellite needs servicing and we can preform that task at a price lower than launching a new satellite, that would be a viable source of income, and a service to earth. The point being that we will already be up there. We are thinking about a way to fund our new nation, this might be a viable source of income. Into the national treasury, to be used to support our mission and population as circumstance dictates. As for assessed income tax, for now, we do what we can according to our ability to pay, or time we can allot for services our country's needs.Hey, I can wash windows or clean toilets with the best of them.