Dec 28, 16 19:31 UTC

Re: People are our greatest Resource  

@EyeR, I totally agree. We can save a ton of space in a database if we keep the data to text. There's a ton of different fields that would be needed for each field area in our forum. I don't have the white-board space to plan them all out, but I'm willing to work with those willing to start putting it together. It seems like we need to start with a basic design of general information. Notewe'll need a disclaimer and be able to secure the data to protect I'm a firm believer in going forward with these projects and only allowing certain access to the data. I can only imagine the headache the Asgardian team is going through. Let me know if you'd like to start with a basic design. I've worked with Microsoft Access, (lvl 5 trained), and some very basic Sql commands.

Dec 28, 16 21:44 UTC

Here's an idea - scrap the physical whiteboard. Digital ones have much wider borders, and other useful features. There could/should of been collaborational tools existing by now. I might be able to provide some, but I am loathed to direct Asgardian affairs from Asgardian services, even if they are mine. However, if needs must it can happen.

It's not common for forums to store images in the database itself, these tend to be stored as files, loaded inline as required.

I don't think m$ access is clever, in the slightest. Open source all the way. And then a little further. SQL of some breed is most likely to be most applicable, which I am not overly sure - my postulation is this would be at the backend of existing services so represent the greatest/simplist compatibility path when it comes to combining this with existing citizen database.

To imply "the team" is occuring a headache would make the grand assumption there has been thought placed into topics like data security - and I'm incredibly dissapointed I've yet to occur even the slightest evidence of this. Despite searching and specifically questioning.

A disclaimer does nothing to protect data, only your arse if you fuck up.

  Updated  on Dec 28, 16 21:46 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Additional data

Dec 29, 16 03:15 UTC

I totally agree with everything you said. I'm not up on open source data bases, most of my IT is network related. Think Cisco hardware, Microsoft servers, exchange, and tier 1-3 support. I do agree that I don't want to over step the current backend, but it would be nice to be able to help. I've already submitted my resume to them.

Jan 16, 17 10:36 UTC

Well, I put up posts in ministries about this -=- Most got deleted -=- Response was somewhat dissapointing with most proclaiming what a good idea it is, or how it should be used more than the features they would expect inherent in the system - as was expressly asked for in the start of the thread - but such is to be expected when attemping to mass import facebook users. So far, all that's been added to the list we'd managed to mumble is "Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities model" - models of which I can only find as essay-based, and would represent an issue in "intelligent" searching. If someone else can figure out how to render that as a form(which I think is what we're currently aimed at) then that can be included, too. Elseways offerances of: "Age, gender, height and weight". Which should build our loose model up to:

·  ID number 
·  Age 
·  Gender 
·  Height 
·  Weight 
·  Educational qualifications
·  Hobbies and interests
·  Other training
·  Languages spoken
·  Loose geographical region

Unless anyone can add to that list, or provide reasons to strike items off, then I would propose we stop waiting to find out what people want and start on the structure of the input form. Unless somone can find some suitable trees we can just copy. Things like ID will be pulled from the existing citizen DB as a unique field and provide the correlation between the two DB's. Loose geographical region should already be in the citizen DB, we just need to return it with less accuracy. I think I recall setting my age/DOB too, I could be wrong about that. Meaning we will only require to collect the rest from the user via input of the form. Weight, height, gender should all be pretty easy to sort out, simple text input possibly suffice as always sanitising user input and confirming sanity.

The rest could possibly be "best" presented to the user as a series of dropdown combobox, spawned by filling the previous options. To use the example provided by Leomarquie: The user selects a field from offered: IT » network » physical hardware I therefore propose we begin by working on the structure of those trees. First identify the primary areas, then secondary, teritary etc. until the tree is completed. This I predict to be the hardest part: making sure we've got everything and it's arranged sensibly. This should be luckily the easiest part to crowdsource.

For the "educational qualificaiton" tree, something like:

»Arts & Humanities
      » Visual arts
           » Architecture
           » Conceptual art
           » Drawing painting
           » Video games
      » Literary arts
      » Performing arts
           » Music
           » Dance
»Business & Management
      » Financial management
      » Human resource management
      » Information technology management
      » Marketing management
      » Operations management
      » Production management
      » Service management
      » Strategic management
»Computing & IT
      » Computer science
           » Computational Mathemeatics
           » Internet Security
           » Data Mining
           » Data Warehousing
           » Mobile Computing
           » Algorithms and their complexities
           » Programming
                 » Object-oriented Programming
                      » C++
                 » Compiler Construction
                 » Natural Language Processing
           » Human-Computer Interface
           » Operating Systems
           » CRM
           » Geographic Information Systems
           » Management Information Systems     
           » Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP)
      » Information technology
      » Information and Communication
           » Computer Networks
           » Ad-hoc Networks
      »Computer engineering
»Design
»Education, Childhood & Youth
»Engineering
»Environment & Development
»Health & Social Care
»Languages
»Law
»Mathematics & Statistics
»Medical Sciences
»Nursing & Healthcare Practice
»Psychology & Counselling
»Science
    » Biology
           » Agriculture
           » Anatomy
           » Astrobiology
           » Biochemistry
           » Bioclimatology
           » Bioengineering
           » Biogeography
           » Bioinformatics 
           » Biomathematics 
           » Biophysics
           » Biotechnology
           » Botany
           » Cell biology
           » Chronobiology
           » Conservation Biology
           » Cryobiology
           » Developmental Biology
           » Ecology 
           » Ethnobiology
           » Evolutionary Biology
           » Freshwater Biology
           » Genetics 
           » Geobiology 
           » Immunobiology
           » Marine Biology
           » Medicine
           » Microbiology
           » Molecular Biology
           » Mycology
           » Neurobiology
           » Paleobiology
           » Parasitology 
           » Pathology
           » Pharmacology
           » Physiology
           » Protistology
           » Psychobiology 
           » Toxicology
           » Virology
           » Zoology 
                » Ethology
                » Entomology 
                » Ichthyology
                » Herpetology
                » Ornithology
                » Mammalogy
                » Primatology
    » Chemistry
           » Analytical Chemistry
                »  Qualitative analysis
                »  Quantitative analysis
           » Biochemistry
                » Agricultural Biochemistry
                » Clinical Biochemistry
                » Enzymology
                » Endocrinology
                » Molecular Biochemistry
                » Pharmacological Biochemistry
           » Inorganic chemistry
                » Bioinorganic chemistry
                » Coordination chemistry
                » Geochemistry
                » Inorganic technology
                » Industrial inorganic chemistry
                » Nuclear chemistry
                » Organometallic chemistry
                » Solid-state chemistry/materials chemistry
                » Synthetic inorganic chemistry
           » Organic chemistry
                » Medicinal chemistry 
                » Organometallic chemistry 
                » Physical organic chemistry 
                » Polymer chemistry
                 » Stereochemistry
    » Physics
           » Astronomy 
                » Astrophysics
                » Cosmology
           » Acoustics 
           » Biophysics 
           » Chaos theory 
           » Chemical physics 
           » Computational physics
           » Cryophysics (cryogenics) 
           » Crystallography 
           » Electromagnetism 
           » Electronics 
           » Fluid dynamics 
           » Geophysics 
           » High energy physics 
           » High pressure physics
           » Laser physics 
           » Mathematical physics 
           » Mechanics 
           » Meteorology
           » Molecular physics 
           » Nanotechnology 
           » Nuclear physics 
           » Optics 
           » Particle physics 
           » Plasma physics 
           » Quantum electrodynamics 
           » Quantum mechanics 
           » Quantum optics 
           » Quantum gravity 
           » Relativity 
           » Statistical mechanics 
           » String theory 
           » Thermodynamics
»Social Sciences
»Technology

This tree is by no means complete - or possibly even accurate - intended to serve as proof of concept. but could potentially serve as a loose template to populate with applicable data, then repeat process for other trees. Intent is the uppermost branch sits in it's own combobox, when selected it populates the contents of the next combobox with applicable data, which when selected populates the the next with options... When it comes to populating the outer branches of the tree - specific courses - I feel that being as vague as possible with the options presented to be best, then after selection offering the user to provide specific name of course, date certified, certifying authority etc. When the tree is complete, a few cycles of find n replace and it'll magically be in a combobox. Minimal effort. If we had some collaborational tools, we could have a document with the tree in it, and crowdsourcing edits/adjustments/amendments would be a doddle... I'm to understand such tools are being considered. Quite how long it'll take to apply(compared to the few hours (to assume total incompetence) it should take) I'm unsure. In theory we could possible start outline of the DB about now, too, but I'd suggest waiting until the trees are complete, the forms templated - then there's a nice list of data to be provided for.

Jan 16, 17 17:13 UTC

Eyer, that is beautiful. It's an amazing work of art you have started. That is exactly the breakdown I was thinking for the database. What do you think about taking that, and breaking it down a little smaller to then add into each ministry forum pages? Have each ministry then modify their breakdown with a little more detail, then compile all the forum pages data to one? What software are you using to create the lists? Do you have an idea on database coding to use to start this? I'm looking to see what I may need to refresh my brain on.

Jan 16, 17 19:05 UTC

Software? I did that by hand.... A little awkward with the formatting, but wasn't no trauma really. Hard part is thinking of what to put in, and then where. Wouldn't of called it a work of art, neither - but it's taking shape nicely and (from my point of view, at least) holds potential to be functional. The tree for hobbies/interests I predict to be slightly harder to build, a lot more options, a lot more crossover between sections... One thing I am having issues with here is thinking of a "good" way to specificy "levels of involvement" with selected task. To assume a simple scale, 1»10, with ten being more involved - and a selection of "email"(not that I think this would be anyones hobby, just an example topic) they might think becuase they check they inbox daily and send three to five emails a week they're heavily involved and select 10, where I'd only select 8 or 9 - and I run my own serices. Need to figure out a way that mitigates perception bias.

Chopping up the tree and spreading it about the ministries might be the "easiest" way to populate it currently. Ideally there'd just be one copy, we could pass links - and everyone can edit it at the same time... would get done in no time. I'm starting to think these tree may expand past the 10000 char post limits(or was it words? either way, inconvenient)

As for the coding... I'd honestly not lent it much thought, preferring to wait until all data types/lengths etc known before begining - but http://www.w3schools.com/sql/ may be of use? I feel within the DB itself, v. litlte should be actually required to "code" in the DB, the initial input and subsequent searches all occuring via PHP - Combobox selected by user to populate variables in the search string.. obviously using SQL syntax for the lookup, but that should all be simple things like:
SELECT * in SkillSet WHERE qualification = 'plumber' AND location = 'Japan' AND languages = 'Italian' AND experience = 'jumping barrels'; in order to locate all the Itallian plumbers in Japan who have experience in jumping over barrels launched by an oversized ape.

  Updated  on Jan 16, 17 19:06 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo

Jan 16, 17 21:24 UTC

How about breaking down experience levels like: Beginner - 1-2 years Intermediate - 3-4 years Advanced - 5-7 years Add for levels of tier 1-3. That would help separate the help desk techs to network admins. I consider myself a network admin, since I not only deal with users, but also in active directory, exchange email server systems, and hyper-v virtual machines. As for the forum trees, mostly see what they would want /need within the tree structure, give them a cutoff date, then have our team create and edit the field database accordingly.

Jan 17, 17 03:56 UTC

Maybe "experience levels" via time as a layer... Time != experience... It * should* be, but not always. For case in point, I'd expect after 1 year of "Systems Administration" the subject to be able to identify an insane security policy from before the times of mass interconnectivity, understand industry standard audit procedures, and be able to identify unsafe places and methods to store either user data or authentication data. But look at the examples given in creating and operating this site. For a pure time-based tier it would suggest much shorter than 12 months experience. IMHO, less than a months experience, which is disturbing as this has been operating for more than. So either such a task has been given to someone who has less than twelve months experience - which considering the overall impact of their actions, is highly irresponsible - or they've spent an alarmingly long time not actually learning anything. I'd be putting my money on the latter. Most users(and these would be the actions of a user, nt an admin) are perfectly happy not knowing how the toaster works, it's working and that's all that bothers them - and thusly they are forever destined to only envision the use of the toaster to heat bread. 15 years of toaster use will build no added experience to five mins, to these people.

With educational qualification(certification by educational "authority") or proffesional qualification(certification in house, or by industry standard body - say, forklift licence COSH etc) trees then users would definitely be great at populating branches, there's not much common argument about what belongs where. Interests/hobbies on the other hand can get a little blurry on such subjects - would fishing be a sport or a pastime? different users would sectionalise differently... although this within itself isn't a great issue, as long as the keywords match (or have "tags" to link the match) it should still find it no matter where it's put, but it's not striking me as particularly "tidy". it might end up quite "chaotic", which IMHO just means it was designed poorly to begin with.

Jan 17, 17 07:18 UTC

That sounds like a good idea. The good thing about the database is that it's a starting point. Good place to start the vetting process for finding people to fit projects. Now, best way to get a database going with Asgardia officials involved?

Jan 17, 17 22:07 UTC

Why not put such things as Sport, Pastimes, and Hobbies in a general category, say "Activity Interests"? They being more of an extra curricular activity than a defined skill set or experience, but still having merit. The further we break things down, the more space we will need for storage and the more complicated the system, when really this should be as simple as possible. But at the same time, someone spends their free time sewing or working on cars, do these fall in "other skills" or "interests" as a subcategory?

Jan 17, 17 23:16 UTC

I believe the idea we are working with is to create a searchable database regarding nation-building projects, and to find Asgardians that may be able to help create/build these projects to allow the greatest chance of success. Just being able to have general past time skills would be more appropriate towards forum page groups wanting to discuss these hobbies and interests. If we start working on a space station platform, and we are trying to design an area to be designated for gardening; we're going to want to reach out to those Asgardians that have vast knowledge in those fields. I, myself, love to garden and spend many hours with my fiancé seeing what we can grow to eat, for our home. However, I do not consider myself anywhere close to having enough experience to provide for a full-time nursery. But, I have over 10 years as a residential/commercial plumber that has been certified for running water system plumbing for home, commercial, and irrigational usage, and thus could provide my knowledge to help plan the best ways to provide water to the garden systems that would be needed. As we go forward, we very well may have the storage capacity and network systems to be able to add those items, but for now, we've already started to see the massive amounts of fields that will be needed to be created just for our primary database goal.

Jan 24, 17 11:57 UTC

Official procedure is to send a "proposal" to an email address - I personally cannot understand why the forum cannot be used for such proposals along with the descision process regarding, the planning for execution etc. Transparency. I did follow the advise listed by Cha further back in this thread, and still haven't heard anything back - although I understand they possibly acquire a lot of submissions.

Personally, I look at things like the list of "features" being added "soon", and think: What can't be done in that list in under an hour? This and many many other things suggest waiting on them would not be the wisest strategy, there may be some considerable wait involved, instead basically doing as much as possible ourselves and just handing them a fully working product. Just add data. Then you only have to wait as long as it takes them to be bothered to import the DB skeleton, copy the search page over to the served directory, copy the input form to the served directory, and add some links. So maybe by 2019. If they ever use it.

On that subject, I honestly wouldn't think we're getting collaborational tools by, say, tomorrow. It's been a week... I grow impatient. Therefore, here's one we deployed earlier https://pad.armed.me.uk:9001/p/Tree I've copied that tree to my etherpad. The certificate errors are expected, and if the fingerprints match:

SHA1: 0E:99:BA:91:91:21:25:1D:D9:E2:4F:72:02:36:1D:B9:8C:3E:E1:C6 SHA-256: 06:79:00:13:99:95:9C:C3:DC:3C:85:CB:6F:39:92:AC:A1:6A:03:0B:3D:B6:69:9C:B3:15:39:1F:F3:A1:37:E1

Then it's legit, and safe to accept.

Chopping it up would allow it to remain in the forum - and I would rather it remain solely on Asgardian services - but it would also by the fractured nature of individual post response result in many iterations. If two people edit it at the same time, there's then two revisions... and then after picking together all the pieces you've got to merge it sensible. Having that multiplayer means we can work from one copy. Saved as it's current revision, if each time people finish adding things they save it, there will be multiple "restore points" should someone(as it would by nature be public access) decide to be a 'tard and delete it or edit it in unappreciable ways. It can come back here when we're done. I've already expanded it to the point I question if it will fit in a post any more.

Jan 27, 17 07:17 UTC

I really like what you accomplished. It's got solid merit for the forums. I know that some things have been slow when trying to work with official people. And I can imagine they've got a lot on their plates keeping up with the tech and requests. wish there was a way to tag IT for this to get approval to go ahead and start deploying to the forum sites. The first part of the tree is a great set of instructions for everyone else to follow.

Jan 27, 17 12:55 UTC

Tyvm, intent was to try and make it as simple as possible. Just like handing over a fully working product should minimise the time required for the "IT team" to actually impliment. As for them deploying etherpad-lite as a standalone product, or embedded as an iframe or w/e, that really should be possible in under and hour. Assuming you'd not know what you're doing when you start. I just threw that up quite sloppily, mostly for this purpose but I also wanted to move an existing one from somewhere else. With them "keeping up with requests" - a devel team comprised of our number should suffice. One day they will either see sense or be made to see sense by their own action/inaction. Sure, it's only a small percentile of the number that would be interested and or capable, but that's likely a larger number than the existing team - and it doesn't have to replace the existing team it can compliment it. All we'd really need is a place to collectively work and input - the output of this can be skimmed by the existing IT team in order to upgrade/maintain services with minimal effort, allowing them to concentrate on looking at funny cat photos on imgur or w/e it is that they do on their day-to-day. To achieve this I'd possibly deploy Etherpad-Lite, collobora, git, racktables(not specifically for this purrpose, but as an asset tracking/management system, it's well abusable) potentially see what I can do about rigging up Maltego(tho I don't think that's open source) etc. This should provide some "core tools" to facilitate collaboration on a wide range of documents, and ability to perform a wide range of tasks collectively.

Jan 31, 17 08:13 UTC

Hi, I'm a business analyst (and in a previous career I spent 10 years working as a relational database developer). I'm also a remote worker (live in UK, work in Australia) and the company I work for sells digital products (anything that can be copyrighted and downloaded). Content producers create things like music, images, templates, fonts etc. and my company operates the marketplace that connects consumers to producers (a bit like the way NetFlix sells movies).

Can I suggest some peer review in this process?

You probably want to start off by actually listing the requirements of the minimum viable product (MVP) before starting programming (because, while the contents of this thread might capture some ideas, it's a bit all-over-the-place). The MVP should be the simplest possible thing to develop that delivers enough value to be useful. Then you'll want to get agreement this is correct.

Who will use this product? Is there an actual person occupying this role (primary stakeholder)? If so, I sure want them to agree the minimum viable product will deliver a dollar value! What is the business use for this database? How would they actually access it? I suppose I should raise security concerns at this point. What is the security architecture?

Apart from 1) marketable skills, 2) previous positions, 3) aspirations, 4) achievements 5) contact details what else is required? I define "marketable skills" as something Asgardia would have to pay for if you contracted the work out but I suppose it could include skills a non-Asgardian would pay for.
You might want to leave open the option of cataloging a person's assets too (not required for the MVP but probably going to be extended in the future).

Perhaps if you put a dollar value on your time (even if you aren't paid) and then you look at how long to create and how much it's worth you can see costs/benefits. Obviously you got to find a way of delivering big benefits. Not sure how they would be realised at the moment.

Just some ideas. What to you think?

Edit: Someone (higher up in this thread) suggested using Access. I just want to suggest not using that (not even for prototyping). This could be a great opportunity for some of us to get a walk through on a good software development process leading to an efficient, reliable, secure product.

  Last edited by:  michael.streeter (Asgardian)  on Jan 31, 17 08:34 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Someone higher up in this thread suggested using Access!