I want to make something clear, there is a difference between a refugee and a immigrant. We are all immigrants to Asgradia and we should never forget that. Immigrants is what helpped make Asgradia slowly become a nation and we should never forget that for all of Asgradias history. Immigrants come to a country to help build it and make a living doing so, a refugee has to flee there country because of war or some kind of devastation. "Immigrants are subject to the laws of their adopted country. They may only come if they have work or a place to live. Immigrants are usually driven by economic factors, or they want to be close to family. Refugees are forced to relocate for reasons such as fear of persecution due to war, religion or political opinion." This is what i wrote in another post were someone was talking about having to control immigration as it was some kind of threat to Asgradia ...................................................................................................................................... In my opinion i dont think we will need to protect ourselves from this treat at all. First i dont think that a everyday person would be able to just get on a ship and try and breech our station, it would be the goverments of earth and Asgardia deciding who would be able to get a visa or citizenship, so we have that advantage. Also second Setting some kind of strict regulations on "immigrants" (who are also our earth brothers and sisters) will only set fear into the citizens of Asgardia, making our people think as if these people from earth have no right to live amoug us and who only take from Asgardia. Which i believe will never be the case, let us remember that Asgradia was founded on immigrants ( as is many great countries) who wanted to come and make this a great nation of there own, But the moment we tell ourselves and let our goverment tell us that certain kinds of people are not welcome, this is when we will forget this. History has taught us many of times that when our goverments are in hard times from something they have done or cant control, the first they tend to blame are immigrants and minorities and we all believe them and let them take the attention off who is really to blame n who has really put us here, which is your goverment taking risk with its people, never the immigrants who once help build your economy. Hell it is still happening today, our goverments making us argue over simple immigration laws and dividing us, instead of us playing attention to bigger proplems, they blind us with this. I can bet if you live in a westernized country and searched what peoples biggest agenda on political topics, immigration will be at the top of the list of what people are most concerned about. Not global warning, not about what we should do to help the middle east or under developed countries, just people worried about more boat people and immigrants getting into there country and taking the jobs they dont usely really want to do or cant do ;). We even let them blame immigration from taking all the jobs and the fall of the economy when it was the banks n corporations at fault. I understand their must be some kind of laws for immigration once Asgradia becomes a real space colony, i would just like to see that we remember how we started and to understand we welcome all kinds of walks of life to our peaceful nation and will for as long as we are a nation. I would really like to even see in our constitution a nice important paragraph about how we were founded on immigrants from all parts of human life on earth, and that we will never let our goverment or people into letting immigration fear us or deter us from the truth of our proplems or from moving forward as past goverments and people of earth have mistakenly done to many times in there history Also maybe a throught of thinking on what could help with what Asgradia is to do with its laws on immigration, maybe instead of being stricted on immigration we are insteaded very stricted on deportation and making it very clear that immigrants of earth are welcome but Asgradia gives only one chance to those who want to conduct to a wrong manner of Asgradias laws and policy's. Do you think this could help or you have any ideas that could please feel free to have a chat as im sure i have gone on long enough lol :) Also one most last note, people lets remember we are very lucky to be able to start a country in this modern time that was not formed with death, thief, war and civil war but instead with peace and understandance, Also with what we know and how intelligence we have become we can really try and make this country a utopia of peace among humans and lead the way of peace so we can teach earth to do the same Lets not let our people of Asgardia make the same mistakes we have on earth and be blinded, let us never forget how our colony was started. :)

Immigration to what? This is a very appropriate statement. At this point in time and into the foreseeable future we will be a nation only. This is plain and simple. We cannot be classed as immigrants nor can we accept immigrants as Asgardia has no territory of its own to immigrate to, only the ability to for us/people to attain a dual citizenship. I would like to also like to clarify the point on refugees. We are not refugees like some people purport, atleast very few of us would be. For those few who are refugees, the opportunities Asgardia provides are very small at present. This is not to say that it will always be that way. I like the suggestion that AllenDeGrey posted relating to advocacy. Once accepted into the United Nations then we are in a position to advocate for others who are in situations where they are not in a position to help themselves. We have a long way to go and many baby steps to take on the path we now travel and we need to consider short term and the longer multi-generation term. It has been said that we can only work with the resources we have at any one time. Thus both now and into the multi-generational future we need to strongly consider this, once living in a closed loop system, there is finite resources ie. food, water, energy, space, air etc. Given a safety margin for emergencies and disasters, it only provides at best for a short term 20-25% fluctuation in population on any given day/week/month, with no buffer should problems arise. Just as we have boat people here on Earth we will most likely have *pod people* those people who are in short range space faring vessels trying to dock at Asgardian facilities. Advocacy is by far the most practical and cost effective measure that can be employed both now and in the future.

I think the interest in both works and in sci if in general is coming up with an idea of how the future might work and testing it out in a way. Because it's fiction the author can generate a contrived universe where they can test th ideas. For example the main theme I took from starship troopers was that Heinlein proposes restricting the sovereign franchise ( right to vote) to people who vote in the best interests of the group, in this case only granting the right to vote to those who've done military service and therefore supposedly learnt to put the interests of the whole before themselves. Does the theory hold water? Probably not. Heinlein makes a lot of assumptions and abstractions from reality to get the idea to work in his book, but it raises the question for me of whether there's a way of restricting the right to vote reliably to "responsible" individuals. Currently the west has settled on "not a criminal" and "over 18" being the only restrictions

Yet it is possible to take a set of rationalized principles, and then to distill them into a fictional story in order to demonstrate how one believes ones philosophy pertains to the real world. I would agree that to treat the fiction as anything other than an argument made poetically might be dangerous. But also to willingly take nothing from it is, I think, a little vain. It's good to try to take some wisdom from a philosophical work of fiction, partially in its critique, and partially by its merit. And many of these stories do have something of merit to offer, both Rand and Star Trek alike. The danger comes from setting the standard at those works. If we are contented perfectly from Star Trek, we won't do fresh philosophy, refining our ideas even further. When we idolize individual works of philosophy we become stagnant.

I love both these books, but they're just fiction. It's easy to make political statements like both books make when you control everything in that universe. You can always manipulate plot lines to have your hero/heroine come out in the end. However, too many people take both of these books as some kind of factual moral and ethical statement just like they do with Ayn Rand's *Atlas Shrugged* and *The Fountainhead*. It always amazes me that so many people are willing to take these things as having a greater meaning than they have. It's even worse when the author takes their work of fiction more seriously than it should. Yes, I'm looking at you, Ayn Rand. However, one should never take their life philosophies from fiction. I'm looking at the Star Trek fans, too. I absolutely love Diane Duane's *Spock's World*, but I know that there are no Vulcans to make it real. I always liked Heinlein's Juvenile fiction better. The first sci-fi book I ever read was *Rocketship Galileo,* so I'm a bit jaded.

+1 I also think population growth should be closely considered when it comes to sustainability as for example in space population would need to be closely watched to make sure resources are not stretched too thin as happens on earth all too often.

Ill just add my greetings with the other Dutch people. Tim here, also from the Netherland, really like the possiblities of Asgardia, hoping it will all work out and no matter what will enjoy the ride! I am experienced in the fields of business intelligence and sustainablity. I have created a sustainability reporting platform and hope to apply my knowledge where applicable.

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>You're probably thinking of asylees, who have a different legal classification. They're a non-issue for Asgardia precisely because you can't walk to space. Walking to space made me think of this webcomic. So, yes, I suppose some thought should be considered for people who as asking permission to become a refugee in Asgardia. Right now, they can just sign up to be citizens. As things get more stringent about who can join (some random point in the future?) it may need to be reconsidered, but right now there are no barriers to citizenship in Asgardia.