Firstly it appears the narrative has changed from "waiting to be recognised as a nation by the UN" to establishing a micronation ref: Welcome to Civic Asgardia Dec 23 and Open letter about Civic.Asgardia "We encourage Asgardia officials to provide timely, accurate information as it becomes available. There is much work going on behind-the-scenes. Officials are working towards Dr. Ashurbeyli’s goals of establishing a micronation. They also work to prepare a satellite for launch. They plan national and corporate partnerships. " Jan 16. This tells us that the initial focus is that Asgardia will become a micronation (without UN recognition) which is a realistic near term goal and we can rally round to take this first step. In fact asgardia is already listed as a micronation on Wiki....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_micronations "Micronations, sometimes also referred to as model countries and new country projects, are small, self-proclaimed entities that claim to be independent sovereign states but which are not acknowledged as such by any recognised sovereign state, or by any supranational organization. They should not be confused with microstates, which are recognised independent states of a small size," From here Asgardia will need to obtain credibility by a) creating constitution /Government /laws/citizens rights b) sending the correct and clear message of what it's goals are and what it stands for. c) This message will need to capture the imagination and belief of millions of people to give it leverage to pursue at a later date serious application to the UN for recognition d) multiple achievements in the fields of education, science and whatever else asgardia states as its goals (which I for one am waiting for) Here is a resource for Micronation creation http://www.micronations.webs.com/ Here is an interestinng recent example of what could be considered as a start "SAN FRANCISCO — On Friday, January 13, The French Polynesian government officially signed an historic agreement with nonprofit The Seasteading Institute to cooperate on creating legal framework to allow for the development of The Floating Island Project. The legislation will give the Floating Island Project it’s own “special governing framework” creating an “innovative special economic zone.” https://www.seasteading.org/2017/01/government-french-polynesia-signs-agreement-seasteaders-floating-island-project/ Micronation status arguably already exists and the forthcoming Constiturion/ govt will reinforce its existence and start to create credibility, which is a long road. The questions I raise are what can Asgardia do, what can it represent, what message can it send, what can it work to achieve that will bring a groundswell of support from millions of people throughout the world and credibly work toward One humanity, One unity? What will set us far apart from the long list of micronations that have gained no traction or international credibilty or recognition?

At some point Asgardia will need to have it's own laws..this reference may help when that time comes "The European parliament has urged the drafting of a set of regulations to govern the use and creation of robots and artificial intelligence, including a form of “electronic personhood” to ensure rights and responsibilities for the most capable AI. In a 17-2 vote, with two abstentions, the parliament’s legal affairs committee passed the report, which outlines one possible framework for regulation." the report http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML%2BCOMPARL%2BPE-582.443%2B01%2BDOC%2BPDF%2BV0//EN News article https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/12/give-robots-personhood-status-eu-committee-argues

How does asgardia view or fit in to this..if at all? "Does the White House know something that the rest of us do not? As the Obama administration draws to a close, the White House has suddenly released a major document that details a multi-pronged strategy for dealing with the threat of a catastrophic meteor impact." or is it a "stich in time" ? Full report linked and can be read on Scribd here and once again How does Asgardia fit into that? Do we intend to spend on what is already happening and funded far faster and larger than we can do? http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-12/why-has-white-house-suddenly-released-strategy-dealing-catastrophic-meteor-impact

If you have watched the video you will know the symbolism. Emphasis was put on protecting all mankind on Earth..I agree this is a worthy goal. This goal absolutely must include a home/land for every earthbound person and the complete removal of poverty as #1 We can also include access to clean water, basic healthcare and education as #2 If we adopt these goals then we will be fulfilling a large part of our Founders implied sentiments. I therefore propose we immediately move for a formal adoption of those 2 Goals by Asgardia and begin to work on how that can be achieved and what part Asgardia and it's citizens can play in working toward that . You are welcome to say Aye should you agree.

In the (extremely) likely event that credibility via achievement, message, Government and weight of numbers will be required before a successful application for UN recognition of Asgardia succeeds one route to get there is to create an Internet or virtual Nation.which can run parrallel to any plans that already exist but will give the community a more tangible feeling of Nation status and the ability to immediately Organize. -Asgardia can immediately create a Virtual Nation - Virtual Nation is projected as the economic future of the next 100 years - this will allow us to create a functioning credible Government very quickly which in turn will allow us to move forward without waiting for any UN approval The economic case "Now the national economy is also being downsized—not in dollar output but in productive base. Among the most efficient economies are those that possess limited production capacity at home. The archetype is Hong Kong, whose production facilities even before the transition to Chinese rule were located in southern China. Hong Kong's GDP comprises 83 percent services and about 8 percent manufacturing production. The model of the virtual state suggests that political as well as economic forces push toward downsizing at home and a relocation of production facilities abroad. In Singapore, for instance, the successors of Lee Kuan Yew keep the country on a tight political rein but still depend economically on the inflow of foreign factors of production, while moving local production to Malaysia and Indonesia as well as China. The virtual state is in this sense a negotiating entity that depends as much on economic access abroad as on economic control at home.....A reflection of how far these tendencies have gone is the growing portion of GDP consisting of high-value-added services such as concept, design, consulting, and finance. Services already constitute 70 percent of American GDP." " Economic Success and the Emancipation from Land The world's progressive emancipation from land as a determinant of production and power gives new opportunities to emerging nations. Structures of comparative advantage that were unchangeable can now be overcome through the acquisition of a highly trained labor force. " The Rise of the Virtual State Wealth and Power in the Coming Century By RICHARD ROSECRANCE http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/r/rosecrance-virtual.html The Political Case The first was Bitnation ( links below) World’s First Virtual Nation Constitution Released on Ethereum’s Blockchain https://news.bitcoin.com/worlds-first-virtual-nation-constitution-released-ethereums-blockchain/ Americans – Don’t Like President Trump? Create Your Own Nation with BITNATION! "What if you could choose your own nation and citizenship? What if there were millions of nations to choose from, each serving the particular needs of their citizens? What if you could freely move from one to the other, even become a citizen of several, choosing the one that best suits you and your family, as if you were buying a new car or smartphone? Or, if you don’t like any of the existing alternatives, what if you could just create your own nation? Now you can. That’s the promise of the Virtual Nation, BITNATION, the world’s first Blockchain Jurisdiction, built on Ethereum and SecureScuttlebutt." https://bitnation.co/blog/americans-dont-like-president-trump-create-own-nation-bitnation/ Replacing Politics With Lines of Code "This is where i would like to propose an alternative case. One where humans are no longer to be trusted to make decisions for the millions they hold politically captive, brought upon by our inability to correctly function within our own systems. Where entire governments can be replaced by lines of code. The next evolutionary step in our progress towards self-fulfilment. The power of decentralisation " https://bitnation.co/blog/replacing-politics-with-lines-of-code/ https://bitnation.co/space-agency/ Bitnation Space Agency (BSA) aims to create and explore open source hardware and software for Do-It-Yourself space exploration, in partnership with SpaceChain Space Agency. If we do not act now remember this when the bad news eventually comes that the UN will not accept our application..after many months , years of negotiation and consideration of our case..which by the way has allegedly not yet been submitted ( and I would welcome being told the opposite is the current position) There are so many reasons to do this but few, if any, that I can think of that would be negative and the forthcoming UN application is not an acceptable negative nor is "we don't own"/understand it coming from admin.

A Fundemental question is should citizens of a Nation have a right to benefit from the Natural and Technical resources of that Nation or commons, fairly and proportionately instead of certain preferred individuals and corporations including those who are close to or incentivise members of Government responsible for the licences, permits and regulations required to profit from those resources.. Well some might say TAXATION does the job but in most cases it has not..things are changing with universal basic income 1 The Alaska model "Shortly after the oil from Alaska’s North Slope began flowing to market through the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System, the Permanent Fund was created by an amendment to the Alaska Constitution. It was designed to be an investment where at least 25% of the oil money would be put into a dedicated fund for future generations, who would no longer have oil as a resource.[5] This does not mean the fund is solely funded by oil revenue. The Fund includes neither property taxes on oil company property nor income tax from oil corporations, so the minimum 25% deposit is closer to 11% if those sources were also considered.[Context?] The Alaska Permanent Fund sets aside a certain share of oil revenues to continue benefiting current and all future generations of Alaskans. Many citizens[who?] also believed that the legislature too quickly and too inefficiently spent the $900 million bonus the state got in 1969 after leasing out the oil fields. This belief spurred a desire to put some oil revenues out of direct political control." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund 2 Finland ...36 yrs later Basic Income Arrives: Finland To Hand Out Guaranteed Income Of €560 To Lucky Citizens "..starting on the first day of the year, will receive a guaranteed income, with funds that will keep flowing whether participants work or not. " http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-02/basic-income-arrives-finland-give-2000-citizens-guaranteed-income-%E2%82%AC560-month i would argue it is long overdue to fairly and equitably share the Nations (worlds) wealth (and a proprtion of LAND) with its citizens in a transparent efficient and less corruptible way. This is coming to the world in general over the next few decades not so much as a result of a fairer and honest government sea change in practice but as a neccessity to counter the effects of job destruction and lessen the risk of armed revolution by armies of unemployed and excluded citizens. The problem for Asgardia is we have no National wealth to share and therefore a primary goal must be to create it before we can consider how to distribute it. Although we are a society in the process of formation the absence of urgency, direction and importance of this wealth creation is at best perplexing as we await focus and guidance from leadership so a response to address that issue and that of Governance before June elections would be most welcome .

Is the UN largely inefficient , ineffective and riddled with corruption and waste and likely to further lose influence and credibility with Donald Trump an the head of it's largest finacier and military supporter? If that is the case should Asgardia promote a new world governing council to replace it instead of hoping for recognition that is highly doubtful it would be granted? A leaner more accountable efficient , less corrupt and truly effective Organisation that can get things done? - "Trump is not the only one to hold a prominent grudge against the international organization, which many have accused of being nothing but an ineffective, if material, waste of taxpayer funds: " Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump As to the U.N., things will be different after Jan. 20th. 4:14 AM - 24 Dec 2016 31,538 31,538 Retweets 88,532 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-24/duterte-i-will-burn-down-united-nations The USA supplies 22% of the UN budget and that looks as if it will come under serious threat under a Trump administration. ( japan 10% Germany 7 % , UK 5% France 5% Russia 2.4% China 5%) Seven countries supply over 55% of the budget so if they decided to make a new body it would become a reality. http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=ST/ADM/SER.B/910 Apart from its ineffectiveness the UN has many negative issues eg ............. "UNsilenced: Whistleblower Exposes UN Culture of Corruption. When she stumbled across massive corruption and made-up statistics in her job at the United Nations, Rasna Warah knew she needed to act. But when she tried to blow the whistle, she was viciously attacked, publicly humiliated, threatened, intimidated, and more. Unfortunately, though, as Warah explains in her new book UNsilenced [...], her case is far from unique. In fact, the corruption and lawlessness across the UN appears to be systemic. Some of the cases described in the book and the pages of The New American magazine make the scandals she exposed and the retaliation she suffered seem mild by comparison. Indeed, in her book, she actually spends very little time dwelling on her own case, but delves instead into some of the many other known and unknown scandals to rock the global organization." ( and the EU is not much different ) Many others are found here http://www.akdart.com/un.html and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_United_Nations edit: this wiki link seems to not work so u can google it and link from there Since its formation there has been no other time when there was a realistic opportunity to "re invent the wheel" with respect to global governance and progress than under Trump and the tide of opinion is turning extremely negative for the United Nations. So the questions are - Should asgardia aspire to join a broken Organisation? - Should we instead campaign to create a new world Organisation with farier rules , more inclusive, more efficient and effective and minimal waste and corruption , seizing the opportunity of current geopolitics? We can certainly debate those issues .

This is politics,science and economics. "Peter Thiel is pushing Donald Trump to use private space companies at NASA" Does Asgardia have plans to offer commercial services in the space field? Does it have the capabilty both technical (probably based on the Founders background) and financially ( big question of $billions requirement) ? "Thiel is no fan of NASA’s traditional relationship with aerospace contractors. During the campaign, he was critical of failed government tech projects, telling the Republican National Convention that “our government was once high-tech” but is now “broken.” “We don’t accept such incompetence in Silicon Valley, and we must not accept it from our government,” Thiel said." Do we have anything radically new or unique to offer that would get funding? Nano tech? Are we more advanced in certain fields or do we need to play catch up with space x before any credibility is established . If so how long and how much will this cost? Sooo many question in need of answers? Article link.... Quartz Dec 21st. http://qz.com/869105/peter-thiel-is-pushing-donald-trump-use-private-space-companies-like-spacex-at-nasa/ Resource link Commercial Spaceflight Federation The Commercial Spaceflight Federation is the leading voice for the commercial spaceflight industry http://www.commercialspaceflight.org/

We are a community of 500,000 + and as many have stated this is our largest resource which arguably is being wasted and needs direction What can we do over the next year that is productive and progresses our goals? The question of increasing and fine tuning our goals has yet to be answered is there anyone that can decide on this? Are these decions actually up to us? Is there any leadership that can respond or do we need to create that leadership from within the community? Let us start with options for the top 10 projects that are either on our wish list, have practical application, can be immediatley commenced by members of the community or anything else I would start by wanting to promote and get more participation in this new forum. . Frankly a few hundred active members is not representative of a 500,000 strong group and any decision may not be truly representative. i know it is very early but if we see the membership of the FB pages of max 13,000 or less than 3% we definitely require more pro active work in this matter. what else should we prioritize and who are going to do it...? maybe we need a volunteer list as well :) [Mod Post] Welcome! We have many discussions and projects happening at the moment. We welcome your ideas. Please click the link to Forum Index at the top of this board. From there you can see a list of topics and projects immediately available for your ideas. If you have any further questions please let us know.

digital art is an interest I have. I have been following Depict since it was funded $3.3million by Jan 2016 It is interesting as the concept is rental of art on a 4k screen/frame. I will give the link to the site so we can enjoy what they have to offer :} but I will also link the crowdfunding site which gives more detail and the manner of offering the project , something that Asgardia may want to consider when it comes to revenue/funding requirements https://www.depict.com/explore https://wefunder.com/depict "Why it’s a big deal: Depict is doing for art what iTunes and the iPod did for music. This MIT team has designed the foundation of a new digital art economy. Depict could be the dominant platform where famous artists and galleries sell digital art, young talent gets discovered, wealthy collectors build million dollar collections, and the rest of us access the beautiful world of high art for the first time. " and an active resource site http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/

We all have an idea of cultural differences between the East and West and these will become more evident when Asgardia has better communication between its diverse membership I watch a myriad of news channels. Most mainstream have agendas and are heavily into propoganda . A very refreshing and relaxing channel is NHK world the Japanese english channel which is proportionately programmed to air many more cultural segments than the mainstream. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/culture/ OK yes they are promoting Japan by example but it is nice . Furthermore they look at traditional art , and artisans. the importance of this will increase as more leisure time or employment choice is created/;mandated by robotics Tech AI and UBI What are the pros of your culture that could be an example or lesson learned to those of other cultures and what are the things that should be discouraged?

Season 8 , Ep 25 Daniel assists the internet's premier candy surgeon in a series of complicated and bizarre food experiments. (8:30) http://tosh.cc.com/video-clips/y9r4ur/cewebrity-profile---food-surgeon---uncensored

This subject is currently quite a hot topic and can be resolved if we get an offcial position or through a debate and an eventual decision!!! Are we fully inclusive? All people on Earth? .The good, the bad/ (subjective) ? Criminals , mentally impaired? Dangers to society? Communicable/ incurable illnesses? victims of addiction ? radical islamists or any num,ber of other recognised terrorist groups? Advocates of cultures and groups that are extreme ..and there are a lot of those..https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/groups If yes then we need to establish protocols for to deal with those considered a danger to themselves and others ( also subjective) If no then we need to define requirements and boundaries which allow participation / 'citizenship" An official position is required on this subject. and who is authorised to make a temporary or permanent "Official decision"?

Whilst work on constitution is important the biggest question for me as a starting point for this is defining and agreeing on our eventual goals. The "Concept" https://asgardia.space/en/page/concept needs considerable work to provide more detail . 1. Is non interventionist a realistic option ? " A core legal principle is that Asgardia does not interfere in relations between states on Earth – and vice versa. " We wish to be a member of the UN.. by definition this will mean we would have to take a position/vote (interfere) in relations between States. Would it be morally correct to continually abstain on issues that involve clear wrong doing or that adversely effect our citizens in their original Nation? 2 While "The essence of Asgardia is Peace in Space, and the prevention of Earth’s conflicts being transferred into space." but also "Asgardia is also unique from a philosophical aspect – to serve entire humanity and each and everyone, regardless of his or her personal welfare and the prosperity of the country where they happened to be born. " How do we serve the vast majority of our community and entire humanity by not working toward resolving their problems here on Earth? Should we use Tech to eradicate hunger, poverty , disease? Should these be some of our goals or is that not what we want to do? 3 Peace in space..! well if we read the posts on weaponizing space that is a) not happening and b) not within our current capability so how do we acheive that? Head in the sand will not achieve that . Would a world federal Govt system help with each Nation having a vote? This is what I consider the UN to be the start of but the big players do not want the restrictions so the UN continues to be toothless when it comes to enforcing issues against the interests of the big players. Should we support chnge in the UN or create a new body that has powers? Who would sign up for that? well it would need to be in a Nations interest which is either military protection or most likely Economic benefit. 3.The root cause of the vast majority of international disputes is money to buy things food , weapons materials machinery personal gain for Politicians etc..or power to get money. Should we have an aim for post scarity so that Money is no longer a divisive issue. If there was less need would migration/refugees be such an enormous issue? Space Law progress is impeded due to space capable Nations not wishing to lose existing and anticipated advantages both in economics and National security how do we change that? Why would they listen to us? The potential answer is - the right message/s which need to be conveyed constantly to every corner of the world. - Credibility.. the message needs to come from a group that is credible and we will need to achieve a lot of thiongs before credibility is established including a community of 10's or 100,s of millions where it is difficult for the big Nations to ignore ( the smaller Nations are mostly already alligned under the big 3-5 and will follw the lead so it is those that need to take notice of Asgardia - The Big players will not move unless they gain considerable clear advantage by doing so..What are we offering/proposing that is good for them? The altrustic aims we embrace are not shared by those players who operate in a competitive duplicitous and often corrupt and nepotistic world returning to the theme of need and greed? Should our goals be expanded to address the reality of the world we live in and find the solution or is that too much to ask of us? Based on that decision we can then create a constitution that embodies those goals and principles .....or immediately create a Constitution that has the ability to evlove which is probably the better option.