Can 27, 01 / Jun 16, 17 21:28 UTC

Constitution needs work  

I've started reading the constitution of Asgardia. There seem to be some errors and problems so far. To whom can i send my suggested improvements?

Regards

Gavin

Leo 00, 01 / Jun 17, 17 01:20 UTC

I am afraid it is too late for that.

We now vote yes on it, errors and all, or just don't vote and THEN we can work on fixing/replacing/updating it.

WMP

Leo 00, 01 / Jun 17, 17 01:36 UTC

Unless it is a 'living' constitution with a mechanism for updating it, its flaws will start creating problems immediately. I have just skimmed through it, and found that there is very little about elected representative accountability and consultation with the electorate. In most global democracies, this is the area of weakness that corrupts the system the most, and prevents genuine & honest representation taking place.

If Asgardia is to be truly democratic then these aspects need to be carefully worked out and written into the constitution.

So, what mechanism exists now to update the constitution?

Leo 00, 01 / Jun 17, 17 01:51 UTC

I just finished going over much of this and there are some issues I'd like to address here, as this is the best place to discuss.

Article 4 :Supreme Values of Asgardia

(4.G)Supremacy of Asgardian Laws

This implies that we have some form of right to force our will on other Nation States- be on earth or other developing space nations.  We do not.

(7) It is prohibited to undermine or diminish the Supreme Values of Asgardia.  Asgardia and its citizens shall implement and protect its Supreme Values from internal and external infringement.

This is very open-ended statement.  This clause Jeopardizes freedom of speech and ideology of individuals. (Which is later 'protected' in Article 8.4.a/b)

Article 8: Rights and freedoms of Citizens

(9) Citizen rights and freedoms may only be restricted by Asgardia's laws to the extent authorized by Asgardia's Constitution, and that is required to protect Asgardia's national interest, ensure Asgardia's Safety, security, and the performance of its mission and Supreme Values, and protect the rights and legal interests of other Asgardian Citizens.

A clause to allow the government the power to negate individual freedoms as those in power see fit.  Very dangerous.


Article 12. Natural Resources

(2) Asgardia shall use space resources in accordance with international space law.

I can't help but think this would inherently slow down the progress of the Asgardian Nation.  If no other nation is in space; why can they establish a Law over us?

Article 16: Government by the People

This entire article is basically a 'TBD' guideline for determining voting and removal of officials.  But does not detail how.

Article 18. Equality of Dignity for All

(3) The views of people and Asgardian citizens about human dignity shall be formed and fostered through education, parenting, propaganda, and the media, in accordance with Asgardia's Supreme Values.

The government is flat out planning to brainwash future generations of citizens - as opposed to allowing free thought and philosophy.

Article 22. Security of Citizens

(5) Asgardia shall prohibit any propaganda of immoral and antisocial behavior, and any production and circulation of information on any storage media, which contains mass information, that is harmful to morality and/or aims to undermine or diminish its Supreme Values.

This is another clause to give the government the right to arrest/persecute anyone whom has or will have in the future any ideological differences to those governing.  These clauses are dangerous - while not intended to be.  Say 200 years from now; when we are long gone from this planet or the stations; this will give those in power the ability to determine what is and is not acceptable and do as they please.

Article 32. Asgardia's Head of Nation

(5) The second and subsequent Heads of Nation can be any Asgardian Citizen over the age of 50 and under the age of 65, who has held space citizenship for at least five years prior to being nominated, and who has the physical and mental health to perform the duties of Head of Nation.

This seems a bit too small a range; there will be times where the best qualified individuals to lead Asgard will be disqualified based on this age restriction.  Since no time-limit of post is presented I'm to believe that the holder of this position will be the Head of Nation until either death or hitting the age of 82.

Say for example; the most ideal candidate is 46; but the current Head of Nation is 81.  This candidate can not participate and due to the longevity of the position - will NEVER have the chance to.

Article 33. Parliament

(2) The Parliament shall consist of 150 member selected from all-national equal direct elections on the basis of language in proportion to the 12 official languages of Asgardia, taking into account an allocation to other language representatives in accordance with Asgardia's Laws.

150 representatives divided by 12 is 12.5.  This is inherently unequal; as 6 'languages' will have a minor disadvantage.  Though after consideration; why base this position on the spoken tongue?  The good should rise; not be held back by something as abstract as to what they can speak.

(3) Members of Parliament shall be elected for a term of five years from among Asgardian citizens who have reached the age of 40.

40?  Lets go for 25.  "In with the new; out with the old."  This limits the ability of youth to actively participate in their government.  We need to stay fresh; as ideas and philosophy will constantly change- and shouldn't be stagnated by such a strict age participation.

(9) The Head of Nation may dissolve the Parliament.  The Prosecutor General may also propose the dissolution of Parliament to the Court.  If the Court is satisfied with the arguments made in favor of dissolution, it may dissolve the Parliament in accordance with the parliamentary law.

WHAT????  At their whim; a Head of Nation can simply dissolve the Parliament?  This is VERY DANGEROUS.  200 years from now; when we accidently have an Asshat Head of Nation; we suddenly lose our protection from him.  This needs to be removed from the constitution completely.

Article 38. National Audio Office of Asgardia

This entire Article is unnecessary; based on failing Earthly Capitalist Government Bodies.  This System is the assumption that we will design a hard to understand and follow Taxation laws.   We are a developing nation - with a new financial system 'SOLAR.'  If this is credit based; we can autonomously monitor how funds are used and tax appropriately in real time.  No need for this arm; that in turn will waste governing funds.  (Paying out funds to a 'Chairman of The Office' and auditors)


Leo 00, 01 / Jun 17, 17 08:56 UTC

Article 4 :Supreme Values of Asgardia

(4.G)Supremacy of Asgardian Laws

This statement isn't meant to convey the superiority of our ideas in comparison to others. Nor does it imply that we have some form of right to impose our will upon other Nation States. The word Supremacy is meant to denote the importance of Law within society. The way I interpret this is that citizens should respect and follow the Laws we decide to pass. While also continually questioning them in order to better fulfill our obligation to follow and improve our mutually shared Supreme Morals.

We need a society that respects Law; but in order to do this we need to re-modulate our mentality in regards to government. Most of the world is in oppressive governments that impose many laws upon their citizens. So many that there are too many to count. These draconian laws have really left a bitter taste in the mouths of many in regards to governments.

My hope is that this government will exercise discretion when deciding on law. The less laws we have; the better the society. Laws are not the solutions; better education and guidance of humanity is. We need to teach our Asgardians how to govern themselves. We've given away too much of our ability to decide what is right and wrong to government. We the individuals need to take a more active role in deciding what is right and wrong; the government of Asgardia should only implement laws that help facilitate the empowerment of the people.

Article 8: Rights and freedoms of Citizens

(9) Citizen rights and freedoms may only be restricted by Asgardia's laws to the extent authorized by Asgardia's Constitution, and that is required to protect Asgardia's national interest, ensure Asgardia's Safety, security, and the performance of its mission and Supreme Values, and protect the rights and legal interests of other Asgardian Citizens.

This statement is only dangerous in the wrong hands. Think of governments as tools. A hammer can be used to build a house; but it can also be used to fatally wound an individual too. It is the wielder of the tool that determines it's polarity. The government in a sense is a hammer and we the people are the wielder of this hammer. It is our ideas, thoughts and actions that will determine what we use this hammer for.

Thus the safest route to prevent people from misusing this tool is to make sure we the people are properly educated, guided and involved. The solution to many of the problems of today have to do with the lack of awareness. Increase the collective awareness on a great many things and you'll see humanity change for the better. 

(3) The views of people and Asgardian citizens about human dignity shall be formed and fostered through education, parenting, propaganda, and the media, in accordance with Asgardia's Supreme Values.

When I encountered this above statement I had some reservations about it just as you did BMcCreary. What I would encourage us Asgardians to do is to properly define propaganda. Wikepedia defined propaganda as "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view". I would propose that we make sure propaganda campaigns cannot be misleading or deceptive in any such matter.

Propaganda is a helpful tool though; it helps us form a consensus about various ideas, goals and beliefs. It has the capacity to greatly assist us in becoming better individuals. Again; just like the government comments I made above; progaganda is a tool and we the people determine it's polarity. All ideas a neutral until we assigned it a polarity with our thoughts, words and actions.

That's all I have to say about the constitution tonight. My closing statement would be that we the people need to focus on increasing both our collective and individual level of awareness in order to create a more ideal and beneficial Asgardian nation. Lack can only exist in a space of ignorance; awareness disempowers lack and gives the people true personal liberty.  
 
 

Leo 00, 01 / Jun 17, 17 12:46 UTC


At first I thought this new ideology could exist under a simpler framework....

Few points I would like to add, in addition to what has been mentioned..

Article

10. Asgardia mirrors the Earth without reflecting Earthly borders. Nevertheless, in the framework of Earthly laws, every Asgardian can freely live within the borders of any Earth State.

Do we really need to mirror what is transpiring on earth, or do rise above this presumption that everything on earth is great...

 Article 9

10. Failure to perform citizenship obligations or failure to perform them properly may lead to permanent revocation of Asgardian citizenship, suspension of Asgardian citizenship, fines, and restriction on and/or permanent revocation

Is this a military service, dictatorship ?( I believe we need protection from biological and celestial bodies,but would need to be altered) if we are to extend ourselves in our daily lives, devote time away from our business and for some away from family life, and assist human kind so we can progress to greater frontiers, than I believe this clause needs to be dropped....

Law

Article 35

4. Justices may be Asgardian …who have a first degree in law and experience of working in the legal profession for at least five years.

Whilst Law on this planet is meant to be about justice, the extent to which every thread of its fabric is manipulated ,contorted , yields a different outcome, and Law looses its meaning. Which country's Law degree are we referring to here? 


This constitution needs further scrutiny.



Leo 01, 01 / Jun 18, 17 09:07 UTC

I invite everyone to add your comments and concerns to this thread I have setup.

Discussion of the Second draft Constitution

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 08:04 UTC

Article 9 clause 5..

I would suggest that there should be TAX FREE environment by the government of Asgardia....

Leo 02, 01 / Jun 19, 17 19:16 UTC

The constitution has some pretty huge problems, that's for sure. The biggest is all of the age requirements... 50 for this, 45 for that, 62 for that. You only want senior citizens to hold positions of any type? And I thought it was bad here that you can't drink until 21. The place is just going to be old and stuffy.

I see those clauses being amended very quickly when things start to take off.