Nov 12, 18 / Sag 08, 02 01:37 UTC
Citizenship fee ¶
Would it be possible to split the citizenship fee into 4 payments quaterly?
If not I can not afford to pay this, as I am currently between jobs
Nov 12, 18 / Sag 08, 02 20:43 UTC
I personally agree with this, the fee is rather high. I'd happily pay it in portions if this were an option.
Nov 13, 18 / Sag 09, 02 00:12 UTC
I also agree with this as well. If Parliament changed the schedule for fees and allowed for people to pay in portions, the fee wouldn't be as much of a problem then it currently is.
Nov 13, 18 / Sag 09, 02 06:22 UTC
I agree. This is a sad day for Asgardia.
The fee is extremely high for those of us struggling to hold down a job. Please cut the fee in half or space it out as stated above.
Nov 13, 18 / Sag 09, 02 17:05 UTC
Almost 280,000 residents at $100 each they are looking to make $28,000,000. Granted not all residents are going to be able to pay. Is Trump on the Parliament!?
Nov 15, 18 / Sag 11, 02 13:29 UTC
nope not going to pay it im out this started all started out as a great idea but they have shown to be a scam I renouce my citizenship see you all later in the real world
Nov 19, 18 / Sag 15, 02 17:39 UTC
I realized how much is the actual fee, and for some incomes (dependant on which country or economic labor) are like a 3 month for a regular worker (it meant the minimun wage) on a deb-free status.
SO, if you really see as a virtue or a benefit for paying the citizenship. Just make a month by month pay (to paypal or your credit card). And later make the full transaction.
If you think is a big cost, and no reasonable to paid year by year, ask for the initial benefit, ¿how in 4 years we become as a territorial or Space nation before cube falls on earth?.
Or ask for how you can change your corrency to "Solar & Lunar", for start a valid currency on asgardia.
Nov 21, 18 / Sag 17, 02 09:35 UTC
If you think about it, this fee should not exist, at least not yet.
Donations and sponsorship should cover the curent needs.
Pro-Bono (it means free of charge) should be the way this so called micro nation Administration should be handled. You`ll see how the flea leaves the corpse once they have no personal gain.
I am one of the 100k, I would say one of the 40k but that means nothing here. I have accepted the Constitution - even if it can be bettered.
I will pay this fee when they print my citizen certificate, my Asgardia citizenship ID card and my Asgardia passport.
Not until then!
Nov 23, 18 / Sag 19, 02 14:06 UTC
Citizenship fee? So basically anyone who can't pay gets booted from citizenship? This sounds like a stupid move, it's not adjusted for income or anything, it's not a tax, it's a flat out feet. This means poor people can't afford to pay it, especially since there is no benefit we gain from Asgardia (except potential), it's a cost, that punishes people for being poor. The rich can easily pay of course, since it's a flat fee of 100 euros.
Apparently I'm excluded from the fee for 2019 because I'm one of the first 100 000, but if you want any legitimacy as a nation, you can't just demand your citizens to make a 100 euro "voluntary" payment to retain their citizenship...
We have no way of earning that money through Asgardia. So we need to earn money in our other nations and then lose it into Asgardia.
If citizenship is possible to be removed so easily as a simple missed payment, then this is not citizenship of a legitimate nation, it's a membership fee of a country club.
Sure, provide benefits to people who donate, but don't strip those who can't from their citizenship, this is unethical!
Nov 23, 18 / Sag 19, 02 18:16 UTC
Valóban magas az összeg.Inkább egy másik formája kell egy tőkeszerzésnek választani.
Nov 25, 18 / Sag 21, 02 22:27 UTC
A citizenship fee means that this is no longer a nation. If you have to pay an annual fee to retain "citizenship" then you are not a member of a nation. There was a post earlier that said an annual $100 fee is a membership to a country club. I wouldn't even give it that. This goes against the idea that we are creating a space nation for the betterment of all humanity. You are creating an exclusive club where government officials will only be those who have paid a membership fee which means that you will have zero representation of the poor. You are creating a plutocracy. Of course that's assuming you were even serious about this being an actual nation, which it seems like not to be the case. This is not what this was supposed to be about. It's cheaper to be a premium member of PornHub and at least they do charitable things with the money they make. What are you doing with the money? Where is the public budget? No transparency? You turned Asgardia into Scientology; it is a money making scheme. How unfortunate.
Nov 27, 18 / Sag 23, 02 16:16 UTC
All of these will cost money, one way or another.
Renting or buying a place to live costs you money.
Getting a new driver's license costs you money.
Paying a utility bill costs you money.
Yet, all of these things are voluntary.
Technically, you can live in another state, be a homeless vagabond (there are lots of people who do it) and choose to not do any of the above. Establishing residency is voluntary, but it costs money one way or another to do so.
As an American, I pay for a passport and a driver's license to help prove both my residency and citizenship.
I see no problem having to pay a fee to get my new residence card in the new nation of Asgardia.
Now, if I never get that residency card -- then I will have a problem.
Nov 30, 18 / Sag 26, 02 07:09 UTC
As I can see, plenty of people want to have profits from Asgardia, but do not want not do something useful, not to pay fees... Cool thinking guys, cool thinking.
More over, you still can be resident of Asgardia without pay anything. Fee is needed only for full citizenship and full privileges. It is normal.
Dec 4, 18 / Cap 02, 02 05:47 UTC
Dirk, then make it based on voluntary donations. Those people are providing voluntary services, so then allow people to provide voluntary donations as well.
Asgardia is trying to attain legitimacy, this does not work towards that goal. There are already plenty of people who are skeptical about Asgardia, especially because many feel like they're not listened to, and even feel actively alienated. For example, as mentioned before, the poor cannot be a citizen of Asgardia.
Misty Writes, Those are all one off payments, in not a single country in the world that I am aware of, do you have to pay a flat yearly fee to retain your citizenship. Sure, there's administrative costs to ACQUIRE citizenship, or to be recognised a resident or such, but there is no flat fee. If you're going to argue tax, if you earn no money and spend no money, you don't pay tax. The thing about Asgardia though, is that the payment is NOT voluntary. it's either pay, or you're no longer a citizen.
Archamon, there's no such thing as a (permanent) "resident of Asgardia", let me quote you Citizenship Act, 2018 (0002) Section 6; Citizens and NonCitizens Status.
"There are four types of citizenship status in Asgardia, each with different rights and obligations.
a. A candidate citizen-resident is a potential citizen who has already applied for citizenship and is pending a final decision by the appropriate authority;
b. A citizen is a natural individual under the provisions of the Constitution and the present Act;
c. A suspended citizen is a citizen whose rights as a citizen have been suspended due to nonpayment of citizenship feesfees[sic], or due to other reasons;
d. Any other inhabitant of Earth who is neither a citizen nor a candidate."
So, "a." is the closest to what you describe, a "Candidate citizen-resident", but their application will be rejected if they do not pay the fee.
"c." is then the next closest, and I will direct you to Section 10, subsection 3 "Non-payment ot[sic] the annual citizenship tee[sic] leads to temporary suspension ot[sic] citizenship until such time the payment ot[sic] the annual citizenship tee[sic] is paid. It[sic] non-payment of citizenship fee accrues for more than a year, then citizenship would be revoked."
So, basically, if you don't pay the fee, you're not part of Asgardia in any way.
Dec 4, 18 / Cap 02, 02 16:05 UTC
Thank you for your thoughts and clarification. I wasn't arguing tax. I was stating there are costs to establish residency.
In the US, if you lose your dwelling or your documents, you have to pay to replace them. If you live in your vehicle, for example, (as some people do), in the state I live in, you do have to pay every single year to have the privilege (I used the word privilege on purpose. Under the republic, it's a right,) of driving on the road ways. We pay in the form of vehicle registration.
You are correct though, I have not heard of any country making me pay yearly to keep my citizenship, itself.
We have to pay in various increments to keep the recognition of that citizenship in alternate layers of fees however.
In the US, driver's licenses are issued every 5, 10, or 30 years depending on the State you live in. You have to pay to have them renewed. Vehicle registration is also done yearly, or you can't legally drive it on the public roads. Passport fees are renewed every 10 years, unless, of course, you lose it before then.
And you're right. These are things that recognize the citizenship itself, credentials of the same.
For me, paying something yearly (or every few years) to maintain that recognition in the form of a credential, is not foreign.
I think that is the difference.
By birth, I'm recognized as a citizen of the United States of America. Nobody can make me pay for that right of citizenship in order to keep it. But having it recognized? Yep, that costs money through the various renewals I described above.
Asgardia is stating that you can be a resident, but not a citizen, unless you pay the fee each year, thus stating you must pay for the citizenship each year.
The only other countries I can think of that behave in a similar manner are:
* Saint Lucia
* Antigua & Barbuda
* St. Kitts & Nevis
Each of these countries offer something called "Citizenship by Investment". That means you have an option of investing in the country in some manner (in a flat fee, a yearly contribution, or starting a business, or purchasing large sums of real estate, etc...) in order to obtain and keep your citizenship if you were not born there. Each of their programs differs. I don't know a lot about them individually though.
I do know if you no longer meet those requirements (whatever they are for each country) then you lose the citizenship status.
So, although Agardia's approach is different than what I'm used to, I see as paying for citizenship status each year as something similar to gaining citizenship by investment. If it includes the ID card (which current verbiage states it will), then I'm also getting the recognition through a credential for the same.
I do agree with you that the verbiage in what you're describing needs to be clarified and the language consistent throughout the website.
I do documentation for a living, so I'm a stickler for eradicating known contradictions, especially, in these types of documents. To say it's important to rectify is an understatement.
I wish I had 30 to 40 hours a week to fix these discrepancies. I can also tell you from experience, that spiffing up the documentation and staying on top of it, is one of the lower priorities in many of the companies I've worked with.