Dec 5, 18 / Cap 03, 02 13:34 UTC

Re:Citizenship fee  

My main argument on this point though, is that it's unfair on the poor. I can acknowledge documents of proof of citizenship costing money, because there are administrative costs involved etc. (Though even this, ideally, would not be a thing if one would want to avoid discriminating on basis of financial status). I understand there are definitely people who are willing to pay, and good on them. I'm just worried about all the people who can't (Incidentally, I'm included in those people, even though I've got the luck of having signed up in the first 100 000, so won't need to pay yet)

It's an inelegant and brute-forced solution in my opinion, and I reckon it hurts the legitimacy of Asgardia. Especially considering that we don't actually know where this money goes. Sure, a good chunk of it goes to administrative costs, but there are currently over 200 000 citizens. If even half of those pay the yearly fee, that's 10 000 000 Euro a year. Sure, that might not be a lot for a nation, but that's still a lot of money to be non-transparently handled, and more than just the administrative costs of Asgardia I imagine. 

In these early stages, I reckon Asgardia would be better off depending on charity from its citizens, not a mandatory fee. And even in the later stages, when Asgardia actually has an economy, it should not be a flat fee, but a tax.

Because with this flat fee, it excludes the poor, which is a terrible way to start a supposed egalitarian nation.

Dec 5, 18 / Cap 03, 02 15:08 UTC


Your points are valid and I understand what you're staying. My excitement in my previous posts glossed over the problems you (and others have rightfully pointed out). I appreciate the clarification.

Dec 5, 18 / Cap 03, 02 20:46 UTC

What is the Citizenship Fee actually going to be used for? 

I am one of the first 100,000 citizens to join, so according to them, i do not have to pay for 2019. But as others have said, some people wont be able to afford this fee. 

Will they be kicked out or will they be considered second class citizens? 

How about using the sponsorship/donations for allowing citizens to be well citizens. How about providing people here (citizens and non-citizens alike) with some paid jobs? 

How about getting the Crypto-Currency up and running so that people (the great citizens of Asgardia) can invest in those Crypto-coins in order to purchase Asgardia merchandise or education or something. 

I can understand Asgardia implementing a passport fee or drivers license fee as most if not all earthly governments do that. I can't see banking fees or citizenship fees. Why not just say Asgardia Tax at 100 Euro and not call it a fee. 

Dec 5, 18 / Cap 03, 02 23:02 UTC

Just changing the name from a fee to a tax literally does nothing to improve it though =P. And kinda makes it less clear what it is.

The underlying concept has to be changed. A flat yearly cost is simply not the right thing to do here.

Edit: Although having said that, you do touch on some points, Asgardia needs to get some money circulation going. By that I don't mean "Citizens, pay us, the government, money!" I mean, money needs to cycle around and start doing some work. If people can make money through Asgardian channels, then Asgardia can tax that money.

There are over 200 000 citizens in Asgardia. All of those people will have different skills and fields of knowledge. Allow these people to interact with eachother, sell things to eachother, provide services for eachother etc. etc. etc. Build a platform that allows people to create a small Asgardian economy. This way, you actually get a sustainable income, and not one that squeezes your citizens dry. Also, getting an actual working economy up and running should help towards Asgardia's goal of legitimacy.

  Last edited by:  Sander Kleven (Asgardian)  on Dec 5, 18 / Cap 03, 02 23:20 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Had more to add.

Dec 6, 18 / Cap 04, 02 12:06 UTC

Where do people get the idea that there's such a thing as "Simple residents"? If you don't pay the fee, you lose your citizen rights, and if you don't pay then within, I believe it's a year, your citizenship is completely revoked. There's nothing in the Citizen act or anywhere that describes there is such a thing as "residents" 

Dec 6, 18 / Cap 04, 02 23:38 UTC

So I'm pretty sure all the residents, according to the Citizens Act, are people who are in the process of getting Citizenship, as that seems to be the only thing that Residency means. I'm curious to see if we'll see a population drop of, say, 181 652 people :P.

But yea, currently the only benefits us "Candidate Citizen-Residents" have, is that we can vote and run for office.

Dec 7, 18 / Cap 05, 02 12:16 UTC

There are no real benefits to full citizenship yet so I don't think there's any reason to panic. When Asgardia is able to reward citizenship, the fee will be more meaningful. I would propose a phasing out of the citizenship fee in any case, when Asgardia develops a working economy.

Dec 15, 18 / Cap 13, 02 21:28 UTC

This Fee is totally stupid. it is a PAY TO PLAY idea. If you want to raise funds then sell hats, flags and other items that promote Asgardia. You will have more sales from just the people who are members of Asgardia. Plus non members will ask where "ya got that cool hat" which could increase citizenship. 280K members @ $20.00 a hat is a lot of Bucks.

Jan 1, 19 / Aqu 01, 03 20:06 UTC

Richard. That idea has been studied for a long time in many different forms.

A hat that costs the end user $20, does not translate to the same amount into Asgardia finances.

You have to figure in production and distribution costs, and that leaves very little to Asgardia in the end, making this not a viable option to fund building a nation.

 Citizenship Fee as currently set up, 100% goes into funding Asgardia and no overhead costs.

Jan 5, 19 / Aqu 05, 03 15:34 UTC

انه مبلغ بسيط للحصول على الجنسية الفضائية