Menu Log in
Supporters
4741000
DECLINED PETITION
ChristopherBoardman

iMPLEMENT Universal Basic Income ....

Asgard 13, 0001 / June 30, 2017
iMPLEMENT Universal Basic Income ....<br/>

I hereby propose to all Asgardians the opportunity to choose whether we should or should not implement Universal Basic Income. For the those who do not know what it is, basically Universal Basic Income (UBI for short) is a form of social security in which all citizens or residents of a country receive a regular, unconditional sum of money - guaranteed, either from a government or some other public institution, independent of any other income.


Pros


Poverty reduction

Basic income is often argued for by its advocates because of its potential to reduce poverty, or even eradicate poverty. The ability of basic income to eliminate poverty is uncontroversial because it is true by definition that an unconditional income set above the poverty line will eliminate poverty.


Transparency

Basic income, it is argued, is a much simpler and more transparent welfare system.


Basic Income and Growth


Basic income and growth (or BIG) allows for potential economic growth: people may decide to invest in themselves to earn higher degrees and get interesting and well-paid jobs that, in turn, could trigger growth  - This would be beneficial for Asgardia, if we truly want to live in a technocratic society.


Freedom

Supporters commonly make three very different arguments that basic income promotes freedom. First, although most basic income supporters tend to be politically left, right-leaning supporters, at least since the 1970s, have argued that policies like basic income free welfare recipients from the paternalistic oversight of conditional welfare-state policies.


Second, Philippe Van Parijs has argued that basic income at the highest sustainable level is needed to support real freedom, or the freedom to do whatever one "might want to do." By this,Van Parijs means that all people should be free to use the resources of the Earth and the "external assets" people make out of them to do whatever they might want to do. Money is like an access ticket to use those resources, and so to make people equally free to do what they might want to do with the external assets of the world, the government should give each individual as many such access tickets as possible—that is, the highest sustainable basic income.

Third, at least since Thomas Paine, some supporters have argued that basic income is needed to protect the power to say no, which these supporters argue is essential to an individual's status as a free person


Cons 

Affordability? (I believe Universal Basic Income would provide growth , thus making it more affordable in the long term) 

May make people lazy? (I personally think that will not be the case, providing that people who work earn more than those who do not, thus incentive to work)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Therefore, it should be believed that Pros outweigh the Cons in this proposal. 

Please like, share and debate below. 

 Sign this petition to make this a reality. 

Thank you,

Christopher J Boardman. -

Asgardian Election - Candidate. 

Manchester, United Kingdom 

VION

Резюме:Авторы: Рональд Блашке, Маттиас Дильтея, Йорг Дрешер, Füllsack Манфред, Даниэль Häni, Людвиг Пауль Häusner, Катя Киппинг, Саша Доктор Либерман, профессор Михаэль Опилка, Филипп Ван Париже, Вернер Rätz, Энно Шмидт, в. Гетц Вернер, Биргит Зенкер

Ключевые слова: все авторы согласились на публикацию этой встрече и отказался от каких-либо прибыли от реализации этой книги.

Библиографическая ссылка

Владимир Оноприенко идея освобождения безусловного основного дохода // Ноосфера. Общества. Человека. - 2017. - П. 5;

URL-адрес: noocivil.esrae.ru/250-1671 (

reply
VION

Модель Дильтея к оформлению освобождающего безусловного основного дохода

Критерии сети БОД и БЬЕН: http://www.Grundeinkommen.info

reply
VION

https://asgardia.space/en/blog/12871-асгардия-ndash-сторонник-экономической-модели-laquoбезусловного-базового-доходаraquo/

reply
VION

https://asgardia.space/en/blog/12871-асгардия-ndash-сторонник-экономической-модели-laquoбезусловного-базового-доходаraquo/

reply
VION

Основная статья-БПК - Библиографическая ссылка Оноприенко в. и., безусловного базового дохода и пирамида Маслоу // Ноосфера. Общества. Человека. - 2017. - П. 5;

URL-адрес: noocivil.esrae.ru/250-1689

reply
VION

Это может показаться странным - предпринимателям интересоваться политикой распределения доходов. Но растет число громких заявлений из Силиконовой долины - руководители не возражают против всеобщего базового дохода (УБИ), система, в которой каждый получает стандартную сумму денег просто за то, что жив.

It might seem odd for tech entrepreneurs to take an interest in income distribution policy. But an increasing number of high-profile Silicon Valley executives are endorsing universal basic income (UBI), a system in which everyone receives a standard amount of money just for being alive.

источник—

http://www.businessinsider.com/entrepreneurs-endorsing-universal-basic-income-2017-3


reply
Richard Howell

I've signed this petition, but would have added that Asgardia should seek to build up the UBI in line with the growth of our national economy, but not at the expense our mission to build up Earth's protective infrastructure.

reply
nopolleyanna

I believe that if someone needs to begin on a UBI, it would be also important that they contribute, somehow, of their gifts or time, to the cause.  I would hate to see someone such as myself left behind only because I am without extra funds to start, it would need to be in alignment with a set amount of work to be given back to the nation, and to not have these folks branded, or made to standout in anyway.

reply
ChristopherBoardman

I agree with you on that! :) 

reply
Ogee Prayogee

I agree with you

reply
Asgardian 742558

And if you dont support the petition?

reply
Brandon.Vader

@EddieB if you don't agree then don't sign it. Right now it's just a petition, it won't actually go into effect. It's just a way to get the idea out there.

reply
Lukas Jones

Then don’t vote for it

reply
ChristopherBoardman

Then don't sign it and sign a petition that you advocate, obviously 

reply
Teuku Ikram

Yes for me

reply
Teuku Ikram

Yes

reply
dfgdfg

支持支持

reply
dfgdfg

支持。

reply
dfgdfg

支持

reply
OllyG

First Asgardia must become a real Nation, with taxes and money to spend.  This seems like a great way to get lazy people to sign up to become Asgardians!  To start a nation we need people willing to work hard and make sacrifices. Once the nation is established increasing the living standard of citizens would be wonderful goal.

Since no Asgardians currently pay taxes, it seems to be a bit early to decide how to spend the money! 

reply
ForestRaptor

OllyG , agreed. Though I agree the UBI should exist for citizens it also must not come as an incentive to becoming a Citizen. UBI doesn't take priority over other financial priorities for Asgardia. But if and when Asgardia is prosperous enough, we should implement an UBI that will help all citizens of Asgardia cover some of their basics needs to live on Earth or other Asgardia territory.

reply
Ogee Prayogee

You are wise.

reply
Ogee Prayogee

You are right

reply
1978ad

I strongly disagree with this concept. For a government to pay everyone a UBI first its citizens have to pay the government higher taxes to receive the money back from them!

Combine this with the inevitable rise in prices when businesses know all citizens have extra money plus the higher taxes to have it in place to begin with and you get an endless cycle of higher taxes, higher prices and the need for the UBI to be constantly increased resulting again in higher taxes and so on and so on….

It is a very nice theory to have people paid for doing nothing, but doesn’t work when real people get involved, as there will always be people who take advantage.

Surely a better idea is just to have lower taxes & less government handouts to encourage more people to work?

reply
Christian Simard

Replace income with services and it makes much more sense as long as you keep it basic. No one should be allowed to die of hunger, dehydration, exposition to the elements ... add medial services and free education and you have give everyone the same chance for a good start.

reply
Dareen

I agree with your idea.

reply
KAY77

The idea is good, but without a strong and stable economy is unrealizable. Therefore, it is premature.

reply
KAY77

The idea is good, but without a strong and stable economy is unrealizable. Therefore, it is premature.

reply
cardoso

I support this petition. Tax collection is not the only way to finance Universal Basic Income. One way I believe UBI can be started is through Helicopter Money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money) or quantitative easing for people (http://positivemoney.org/), and with that, a functional economy would be created.


How do I see this working:

Step 1 - Whenever a person becomes a citizen of Asgardia, 1000 SOLARS would be created out of nothing and this new money would be given to this new citizen.

Step 2 - To encourage consumption, a law would be created something like this: a citizen could only save 40% of what he/she earned when he/she became a citizen. The other 60% the citizen would have to spend as he/she liked within a year within 10 different products or services, otherwise, the government would take what exceeded 40% and was not spent.

Step 3 - Because of the law created in Step 2, other citizens who believe in Asgardia and want more SOLARS money would be encouraged to create business. These businesses would initially be digital products or services (ebooks, online courses, translations, programming etc.) and then tangible things (clothes with the symbol of Asgardia, toys and even food). To encourage entrepreneurship, these businesses would have no taxes.


With these 3 steps, I believe a functional economy would be created in a short span of time. Is still necessary to discuss how to avoid fraud (someone could try to become a citizen several times), but I believe that with a little research this can be solved. Web of trust (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust) is an example.


PS: English is not my native language.

reply
david.kingsleyjr

Quantitive easing is currently being used in the U.S. and is proving to be a problem as far as devaluation of the U.S. Dollar. I.E., it takes more U.S. Dollars to make ONE Euro. So it would REALLY be more beneficial for me to live in Europe and send my money to the U.S.

Another thing that is quite disturbing is the fact that your method requires a removal of free economy...For Asgardia to be truly free, so must it's economy. by only allowing an Asgardian 40% savings and a time limit to spend the other 60%, that's not a free market...Especially when you put a timeline on it. So what happens to the money if they don't spent it in that timeline? Does the Asgardian government just "indian give" this money? Just the 60%? All of it? Tax it? these are questions I have.

How will the SOLAR be backed? Every unit of currency has a guarantee of value for a physical...a tangible asset. Who will be funding the government. I am 100% sure very few, if NO ONE is going to be privy to the idea of having to report their REAL world income to the Asgardian government to be taxed based on each individual country's currency to fund Asgardia. I know with the amount of money i make and the U.S. government takes from me, my budget wouldn't allow for another coming in and taxing me.

reply
cardoso

I don’t agree with the model that Quantitative easing(QE) is being used today. QE for people is another thing totally different. This video is how I understanding QE for people.


This method of compulsory spending is about the money that someone receives when becoming a citizen of Asgardia. This compulsory spending would not be applied to the money of creating a business or working. An example: I receive 1000 SOLARs when I became a citizen, then, let's suppose, I decide to sell some online courses of programming and receive more 1000 SOLAR of this endeavor. In this scenario I don’t have to spend 60% of 2000 SOLARS that are in my account, I just need to spend 60% of 1000 SOLARS that I receive when I become a citizen.


This question of how SOLAR will be backed certainly is not a trivial one. This question is related to the discussion of fiat money and representative money. But we can try a new approach to this making SOLAR backed with the number of citizen of Asgardia. This is just an idea to be considered, like in project ubu. Making SOLAR backed by the number of citizens we will be attributing an economic value to people.


About taxes, I totally agree with you. Is nonsense to report real world income to the Asgardian government. If this happens, I will be one of the first to request revocation of my Asgardian citizenship. This is why I believe that UBI could and must be implemented without taxes. Taxes should only be implemented when existing a functional economy on Asgardia. And I believe that UBI can help create a functional economy.


reply
Olga Charalampidou
scattered in all the countries, I do not think it will succeed.
reply
Ross Bartlett

"May make people lazy?"  So far the ongoing study of UBI in Finland suggests that UBI increases happiness and incentive to work. It is worth adding that to your information. 

reply
Sharrod

I think the concept is good, but as stated before, is premature.  However, perhaps look at it more as providing people the ability to study and follow more productive lines of work to grow the community, rather than working in a call centre.  Working in fast food.  I understand that those jobs have a place in the current system, but look at removing damaging roles, and promote ones which will help us build our dream.


Rather than a UBI - a re-look at the importance and value of money.  Perhaps learn to share, and support eachother,  give us less dependancy on the system that is already here, giving us more freedoms.


reply
YouSir

This is a good idea...whose time unfortunately is best left to the future...

However, any Universal basic income should not preclude any individual from rising above and beyond such according to ones own drive and entrepreneurial talent...

I think that we should not hand over the future to automation...rather we should partner the automaton with a telepresence operative human being...

I for one am not too comfortable being spoon fed...I would much rather exercise both my physical mental and spiritual natures pursuing that future...


YouSir

reply
YouSir

This is a good idea...whose time unfortunately is best left to the future...

However, any Universal basic income should not preclude any individual from rising above and beyond such according to ones own drive and entrepreneurial talent...

I think that we should not hand over the future to automation...rather we should partner the automaton with a telepresence operative human being...

I for one am not too comfortable being spoon fed...I would much rather exercise both my physical mental and spiritual natures pursuing that future...


YouSir

reply
Brandon.Vader

There's a lot to work out, but I'd like to see this happen. Yes vote here.

reply
RichardBravoOne

Not that I want to put a damper on this idea, but why do we need money, would we not all be equal and be working for our own future and sharing ideas and resources with each other. Why create "money" it another 'root of all evil'.... Just my thoughts

reply
Shaolin Twelve

Money isn't the root of all evil, this is a common biblical misquote. It is 'The LOVE of money which is the root of all evil', there is a big difference.


However, just as I agree we don't really need money if we work together, I would point out that money is already an illusory component of our lives. We work to earn money, to put a roof over our heads, and food and drink in our bellies, but that work has to be supported with this and that type of tool, clothing, fuel, gadgets etc., Surely it was much simpler for our ancestors who only had to sharpen a stick, listen to his ancestors advice, then track and catch, or build directly. They didn't need a bank or government for that matter to tell them they could or couldn't. These days we are enslaved by our lives, yet if modern tools and society disappeared overnight, most 'civilized' humans would not survive, period.

Therefore it seems to me that we could have UBI, but as all our relationships are based on reciprocity (we all expect something when we give, even if it is a smile), in order for a cashless, or UBI type of life to work, we would have to work hard at filling each others expectations (we already do this though as part of our getting on with each other in society) sothat no-one felt or was actually cheated. So for instance for a share in the food you collected/bought, you might say to me that you want a pair of the slippers or shears (whatever) I am making, or have. Or because I helped bring in the harvest, and helped clean and cook, we all eat for free.


We put value on our time, but ignore the fact that we inherited the Sun, and this planet for free, and that the food and the water, the wind, and the waves, the fire and the ice was available to those who would do the work to get it. How ever did our ancestors survive without high finance and governmental oversight?


Yes things have changed, but arguably UBI isn't an argument about affordabilty, but one of ethics and logic.


reply
Christian Simard

UBI could be good but Income/Money has the potential to be easily misused and abused. 

Why not go for UBS ? Universal Basic Services : Where everyone gets free access to the basic need air, food, water, clothing and shelter, sanitation, education, and healthcare.

Once those are met everyone would be free to focus on what they find most important, whether it is making money to afford fancier versions of the above, spending more family time, higher education or volunteering for the good of the community... 

I am also of the opinion that our government official should be provided with these and all else that is required for the job free of charge but be allowed no other salary, commissions or "perks" from any external source to avoid recreating the current lobbyist nightmare most supposedly democratic country are now entangled in.

reply
Brix

I don't believe in the UBI, i believe every person should work for what ever he or she gets. Asgardia should be of hard Working people and not to be populated by lazys.


reply
cardoso

This picture is how I see UBI supporting hard working people:

reply
VION

reply
SALMON WING

I believe that the necessary income of society comes from the hard work of the people and creates more wealth for Asgardia, so I believe that we should first solve the problem of employment and develop a new batch of future jobs. We have to think about it before we get there. How do you like it?


reply
david.kingsleyjr

I don't see ANY pro's of this. First and foremost, this petition lacks ANY kind of ACTUAL evidence in any claim contained within. Without some kind of actual independant and neutral entity conducting a study on said subject matter, I must kindly decline to vote on this.

Cons:

1) There is NO proof that UBI (Welfare) actually protects anyone's right to say no.

2) UBI gives the government control over it's citizens. I for one, don't want anymore bureaucracy in my nor my family's life (for ALL generations) than there already is.

3) There is NO proof in ANY positive decrease in unemployment numbers. My question to you is: When is the last time you ran by a study that showed a decrease in unemployment numbers when provided with a source of income.
4) Being in line with #2, there is no actual evidence that UBI decreases poverty. It may help JUST A LITTLE, but you cannot kill poverty by giving them an incentive to not work.

5) There are more cons, but not enough time nor space to go through all of them.


Now, what I COULD foresee, is a work incentive. EVERYONE in Asgardia should work, unless they have built wealth through a business. Therefore, you should make a work incentive in SOLAR, which is more attractive than it's welfare counterpart. When implemented correctly, working is more attractive. This incentive could be in the form of tax cuts, physical assets such as gold, silver, etc.; a pre-determined amount of SOLAR based off how good your job is...Give people a reason to work and to further their education.

reply
david.kingsleyjr

I must clarify on #3...***when provided with an income source by the government without incentive to work.***

reply
cardoso

hey david.kingsleyjr

I agree with you when you say that UBI lacks evidence in any claim contained. But that is because UBI was never implemented in large scale. The experiment with UBI in Canada, Finland and Netherlands are running to show what are the real pros and cons of this system.

I believe that Asgardia could start an experiment with UBI too. UBI is a worthwhile idea and would cost nothing from anyone to start this experiment in Asgardia perspective. A simple announcement like this could start this experiment: “Hey citizens of Asgardia, here is some SOLARs money to you, start buying/selling with that”. People that believe in Asgardia and believe that someday will be possible to buy tickets to space with SOLARs will start buying/selling/accumulating in SOLARs.

Again, this is just an idea that can work or not. But worthwhile test this idea because this can create a functional economy in Asgardia.

reply
Sylvain Bradford

Asgardia is the society of the future not of the past and that means, the majority of Asgardia income will come from automated and robotized assets.

Collecting space debris appears to be a priority for Asgardia and this can't be done manually like asteroids mining, planetaries shield, and any future space transports or another source of income from space are mostly to be done by robots or other automated systems.

Due to the nature of Asgardia, the ratio of employment will probably be as is maximum around 1 or 2 %.

Who's among us will work and receive income from the lunch and creation of our first satellite this autumn? This is Asgardia now and the future will be also like this if we do not apply the U.B.I.

As we Asgardians, having agreed by our vote to provide equal access to space to all indistinctly of their country of origin, race, religion or nonreligion and especially on this concern indistinctly of their wealth situation.

Yes, the U.B.I. must be implemented if we do not want to create a nation of excluded citizens.


reply
Nolan_E_Westmore

I feel as if UBI will ultimately make it more difficult for people who rely on it as a source of income to get anything done and proceed to create drag on other people in the nation who are working for their income. If everyone has $20, then $20 is worthless.

UBI should be granted at least partially on merit as to ensure the individuals receiving the money are not sitting idly by. Some despicable people who exist on welfare in the United States are perfectly capable of committing to the workforce but bear no plans on doing so or providing directly to society because their income is given to them for nothing.

reply
enrique_morales
I believe that the UBI could be interpreted as a populist measure ... Perhaps and perhaps inspired by the fatal experience of my country Venezuela, where the Paternalistic State has put an infinite number of "aids" equivalent to a monthly minimum wage, being increased almost excessively Frequent by the President ... what has been the nefarious result? With a policy that restricts the production of goods and services exportable and of benefit to the country, entrepreneurs will go bankrupt, unemployment increases. BUT, people, far from looking for ways to continue working, they simply dedicate themselves to not working and Waiting for Daddy State to pass the aid; And even coding it for political ends. That is why I am very suspicious of the UBI. Rather, it is better to propose free access to basic services, to saving and to promote the greater collective income to Asgardia, rewarding those who work harder and aupando the diversification of work. Claro has access to real and justified unemployment and retirement funds, as incentives to the worker of Asgardia.

Considero que el UBI pudiera interpretarse como una medida populista... Quizas y tal vez inspirado por la fatal experiencia de mi país Venezuela, donde el Estado Paternalista ha puesto infinidad de "ayudas" equiparables a un salario mínimo mensual, siendo aumentado casi que excesivamente frecuente por el Presidente... ¿cual ha sido el nefasto resultado? Con una política que restringe la producción de bienes y servicios exportables y de beneficio al país, los empresarios se van a quiebra, se incrementa el desempleo PERO, la gente, lejos de buscar la forma de seguir trabajando, simplemente se dedican a no trabajar y esperar que Daddy State pase la ayuda; e incluso codicionandola a fines políticos.
Por eso veo con mucho recelo el UBI. MAs bien es mejor proponer el libre acceso a los servicios básicos, al ahorro y promover el mayor ingreso colectivo a Asgardia, premiando a quien mas trabaja y aupando la diversificación del trabajo. Claro esta con acceso a fondos de cesantía y retiro reales y justificados, como incentivos al trabajador de Asgardia.

English/Spanish 

reply
enrique_morales
I believe that the UBI could be interpreted as a populist measure ... Perhaps and perhaps inspired by the fatal experience of my country Venezuela, where the Paternalistic State has put an infinite number of "aids" equivalent to a monthly minimum wage, being increased almost excessively Frequent by the President ... what has been the nefarious result? With a policy that restricts the production of goods and services exportable and of benefit to the country, entrepreneurs will go bankrupt, unemployment increases. BUT, people, far from looking for ways to continue working, they simply dedicate themselves to not working and Waiting for Daddy State to pass the aid; And even coding it for political ends. That is why I am very suspicious of the UBI. Rather, it is better to propose free access to basic services, to saving and to promote the greater collective income to Asgardia, rewarding those who work harder and aupando the diversification of work. Claro has access to real and justified unemployment and retirement funds, as incentives to the worker of Asgardia.

Considero que el UBI pudiera interpretarse como una medida populista... Quizas y tal vez inspirado por la fatal experiencia de mi país Venezuela, donde el Estado Paternalista ha puesto infinidad de "ayudas" equiparables a un salario mínimo mensual, siendo aumentado casi que excesivamente frecuente por el Presidente... ¿cual ha sido el nefasto resultado? Con una política que restringe la producción de bienes y servicios exportables y de beneficio al país, los empresarios se van a quiebra, se incrementa el desempleo PERO, la gente, lejos de buscar la forma de seguir trabajando, simplemente se dedican a no trabajar y esperar que Daddy State pase la ayuda; e incluso codicionandola a fines políticos.
Por eso veo con mucho recelo el UBI. MAs bien es mejor proponer el libre acceso a los servicios básicos, al ahorro y promover el mayor ingreso colectivo a Asgardia, premiando a quien mas trabaja y aupando la diversificación del trabajo. Claro esta con acceso a fondos de cesantía y retiro reales y justificados, como incentivos al trabajador de Asgardia.

English/Spanish 

reply
enrique_morales
I believe that the UBI could be interpreted as a populist measure ... Perhaps and perhaps inspired by the fatal experience of my country Venezuela, where the Paternalistic State has put an infinite number of "aids" equivalent to a monthly minimum wage, being increased almost excessively Frequent by the President ... what has been the nefarious result? With a policy that restricts the production of goods and services exportable and of benefit to the country, entrepreneurs will go bankrupt, unemployment increases. BUT, people, far from looking for ways to continue working, they simply dedicate themselves to not working and Waiting for Daddy State to pass the aid; And even coding it for political ends. That is why I am very suspicious of the UBI. Rather, it is better to propose free access to basic services, to saving and to promote the greater collective income to Asgardia, rewarding those who work harder and aupando the diversification of work. Claro has access to real and justified unemployment and retirement funds, as incentives to the worker of Asgardia.

Considero que el UBI pudiera interpretarse como una medida populista... Quizas y tal vez inspirado por la fatal experiencia de mi país Venezuela, donde el Estado Paternalista ha puesto infinidad de "ayudas" equiparables a un salario mínimo mensual, siendo aumentado casi que excesivamente frecuente por el Presidente... ¿cual ha sido el nefasto resultado? Con una política que restringe la producción de bienes y servicios exportables y de beneficio al país, los empresarios se van a quiebra, se incrementa el desempleo PERO, la gente, lejos de buscar la forma de seguir trabajando, simplemente se dedican a no trabajar y esperar que Daddy State pase la ayuda; e incluso condicionandola a fines políticos.
Por eso veo con mucho recelo el UBI. MAs bien es mejor proponer el libre acceso a los servicios básicos, al ahorro y promover el mayor ingreso colectivo a Asgardia, premiando a quien mas trabaja y aupando la diversificación del trabajo. Claro esta con acceso a fondos de cesantía y retiro reales y justificados, como incentivos al trabajador de Asgardia.

English/Spanish 

reply
Ogee Prayogee

The bottom line is, I would like to remind you of a famous quote by J.F.Kennedy ,if am not wrong.  It goes roughly  like this  Do what you can  do for the country, not ask  what  the country can do for you. Please somebody correct it.

Asgardians are very various people in every ways, in cultures,personalities, philosophies, perceptions ,mentals, educations, you name it. Some cultures tend to be slow, enjoy life , some cultures are workalkoholic , some cultures like working hards, tend  to have high self-respects, creatives , high fighting spirits etc. The idea of UBI ,hopefully would be like aphrosidiac to work harder , instead of going to be counter productive to this new-born nation

reply
Amanata Siti Sapnarani

Im a bit worrying about lazy generation that may appear caused by UBI. However, as I realize that Asgardian must have the accessibility of "food, clothing, shelter, and basic material and immaterial benefits", UBI becomes to be a very good way to make sure that all Asgardians get what supposed to be their right as an Asgardian.

reply
Hil1970

I support! Here in Brazil, we had a Senator who also defended this thesis of Basic Income of Citizenship, Mr. Eduardo Matarazzo Suplicy (who unfortunately could not re-elect, even because the Party in which he was part, became involved in corruption), but taking this Christopher J Boardman, it is very fair and feasible to create this income.

reply
Israel L

I don't think I noticed anyone bring up the following point; where does the money go? [note: these comments apply to denizens of earth, which we will all be for a very long time]

Asgardians are distributed into many current nations. We have no Asgardian local economy. Rather, Asgardians pay for goods and services in their host nation. Almost every resource/currency an Asgardian has is hosted and spent in the local economies of the host nation. Asgardian citizens will very quickly leak/leach any UBI funds into said host nation; very few UBI funds will ever make it back into Asgardia to help the next group of Asgardians receive a payment. In fact, the promise of a UBI to attracts new tax-paying Citizens (as I've seen suggested)may be a form of Ponzi Scheme.


Another issue: UBI's are intended to help people in poverty, yet you could not use an Asgardian UBI to buy food, clothes, or shelter. There is no Asgardian supermarket or grocery store in your nation. There are no Asgardian home builders. And if you do find someone who accepts the Asgardian UBI (in the form of SOLAR), you have no guarantee of the exchange rate. Different necessities have different currency values across the world. If you have 1 US dollar, it will buy you more food in China and less food in England. The UBI would not be of a universal value as the purchasing power will be different nation to nation, requiring frequent adjustment for payments to citizens in every country in the world.

In some nations a UBI probably makes sense within that nation's borders. Asgardia has no physical border and no local economy (yet),  an Asgardian UBI ultimately pushes resources out of Asgardia, weakening it. Depending on the pace of Asgardia's growth and value to the world, there may not be the feasibility for an Asgardian UBI for this, or many more, generations.

reply
Israel L

I don't think I noticed anyone bring up the following point; where does the money go? [note: these comments apply to denizens of earth, which we will all be for a very long time]

Asgardians are distributed into many current nations. We have no Asgardian local economy. Rather, Asgardians pay for goods and services in their host nation. Almost every resource/currency an Asgardian has is hosted and spent in the local economies of the host nation. Asgardian citizens will very quickly leak/leach any UBI funds into said host nation; very few UBI funds will ever make it back into Asgardia to help the next group of Asgardians receive a payment. In fact, the promise of a UBI to attracts new tax-paying Citizens (as I've seen suggested)may be a form of Ponzi Scheme.


Another issue: UBI's are intended to help people in poverty, yet you could not use an Asgardian UBI to buy food, clothes, or shelter. There is no Asgardian supermarket or grocery store in your nation. There are no Asgardian home builders. And if you do find someone who accepts the Asgardian UBI (in the form of SOLAR), you have no guarantee of the exchange rate. Different necessities have different currency values across the world. If you have 1 US dollar, it will buy you more food in China and less food in England. The UBI would not be of a universal value as the purchasing power will be different nation to nation, requiring frequent adjustment for payments to citizens in every country in the world.

In some nations a UBI probably makes sense within that nation's borders. Asgardia has no physical border and no local economy (yet),  an Asgardian UBI ultimately pushes resources out of Asgardia, weakening it. Depending on the pace of Asgardia's growth and value to the world, there may not be the feasibility for an Asgardian UBI for this, or many more, generations.

reply
Israel L

I don't think I noticed anyone bring up the following point; where does the money go? [note: these comments apply to denizens of earth, which we will all be for a very long time]

Asgardians are distributed into many current nations. We have no Asgardian local economy. Rather, Asgardians pay for goods and services in their host nation. Almost every resource/currency an Asgardian has is hosted and spent in the local economies of the host nation. Asgardian citizens will very quickly leak/leach any UBI funds into said host nation; very few UBI funds will ever make it back into Asgardia to help the next group of Asgardians receive a payment. In fact, the promise of a UBI to attracts new tax-paying Citizens (as I've seen suggested)may be a form of Ponzi Scheme.


Another issue: UBI's are intended to help people in poverty, yet you could not use an Asgardian UBI to buy food, clothes, or shelter. There is no Asgardian supermarket or grocery store in your nation. There are no Asgardian home builders. And if you do find someone who accepts the Asgardian UBI (in the form of SOLAR), you have no guarantee of the exchange rate. Different necessities have different currency values across the world. If you have 1 US dollar, it will buy you more food in China and less food in England. The UBI would not be of a universal value as the purchasing power will be different nation to nation, requiring frequent adjustment for payments to citizens in every country in the world.

In some nations a UBI probably makes sense within that nation's borders. Asgardia has no physical border and no local economy (yet),  an Asgardian UBI ultimately pushes resources out of Asgardia, weakening it. Depending on the pace of Asgardia's growth and value to the world, there may not be the feasibility for an Asgardian UBI for this, or many more, generations. 

reply
cardoso

Hi Israel L.

I made some considerations about the destination of UBI's money in the midst of these comments. I proposed a trick to stimulate the economy among the citizens of Asgardia. Briefly speaking, a compulsory expenditure of income earned through the UBI would be established. An example: if a person earned 200 SOLARs through UBI, that person would have to spend 100 SOLARs on something. I believe this would stimulate the creation of a functional economy because many people actually believe in Asgardia and would be willing to open a business that would accept SOLAR.  In the beginning, it would be digital products like online courses and digital books and then tangible products. Another example: Here in Brazil some citizens of Asgardia created a site to promote Asgardia and to divulge information. If I had SOLAR I would give some to them as a form of recognition for the work they are doing. I think this would be the beginning of a local economy in Asgardia so that in the future people would accept SOLAR for food and clothing.

About the other problem. You're right, UBI intends to help people in poverty. That's why I believe that Citizen's Income (CI) is a more accurate term to indicate how a SOLAR cryptocurrency distribution policy can help create a functional economy in Asgardia. The difference between UBI and CI is that UBI intends to provide the basics, on the other hand, CI can vary according to citizen participation in society. An example: someone who votes in the elections of Asgardia would receive more than those who do not vote. I'm working on a simulation of how this could work. When it's ready, I'll post it here.


reply
Alberto Madonna

I am from Venezuela and I would also like to clarify some things because when they talk about not implementing the UBI say, look at this is what will happen if you implement it first you have to differentiate what the Venezuelan government system has never interested yoand will never be interested in applying The UBI because it would give decision power to people and, it depends on the people can decide between supporting the government or starving ?(the UBI that these people apply is I give you a bag of food to survive if you do not vote for us you are going to starve) that's UBI? I do not think so, according to the idea of the UBI is to be able through the state to have a guaranteed minimum income that will not discriminate by age, color And sex (ie the state will be obliged to give it and also can not discriminate for their political campaigns and who to give it or not ) 

Third party should always be adjusted to the  economic power of an Asgardian to buy food, clothing, shelter, room, 

no person although late years can not stay static and survive with a basic income  its in the  nature of the human being is to seek to improve their quality of life And to do so will look for the way to work on something that you are passionate about will make people who were in jobs that can not refuse because they starve to aspire to make a job that is really interested, that is, it would exponentially increase productivity

reply
VION

Плюсы: - социально-экономические разногласия между богатыми и бедными исчезнет, так как состоятельные люди будут вносить существенный вклад в развитие страны и поддержку для менее состоятельных граждан. В то же время, поскольку под имеет ограниченный Размер, менее состоятельных граждан будет стремиться к повышению их производительности труда и улучшению состояния экономики в целом; - острая борьба за деньги исчезнут, потому что человек достоин существования уже будет гарантировано, что окажет положительное влияние на межличностные отношения между гражданами; - нет никакой дискриминации - под выкладывается для всех.

reply
Vivio

There is no need to use it on big scale from the start, but not doing it at all is worse. We are no longer in era where we are incapable of implementing this. 

reply
Vivio

Also direct money support is not the only way, it could be done roundabout way by exactly dividing expenses for paying for/ giving free accommodation, food, education, entertainment, sport, clothes, work/hobby expenses.... That way money wouldn't be wasted in any way.

reply
JohnFine

This concept has its place and time, just not sure it's with Asgardia

I ask everyone to consider this

As someone here said we all come from different backgrounds and such, the key to a successful future of all Asgardians, is to put aside all the things of this world, and create a new world.  

If we use the same ideas as those from this world expecting different results, we will have the same results. Einstein said that was insanity.  So here is something to consider, 

I think we should think of Asgardia as a (family) business, all of us working together to achieve a goal, once we are in space everyone puts  their wealth, no matter how little or how big it is,  into the Bank of Asgardia.  This would be considered our collateral or assets.

Have everything on the space ark's as free access, you use as needed.  Since everyone is working together for the common good of Asgardia, no payment for work services would be needed, your payment in essence would be all the other services like food, clothing, entertainment, housing and so on.  

We work towards a way to lose our dependence to earth and gather our resources from our own independent ways.  We use our collateral, or assets,   to invest in lucrative investments throughout the world on earth, to finance all our needs until we are able to become independent.  We elect representatives to control the finances and investments (who are the most qualified by their field of expertise) We vote on approval of new materials and projects to be funded with our assets as they arise using the established processes and always keep our objectives as Asgardians as our number one priority.  

This seems a better way to me, but were years away from such things and all this is only food for thought, nothing more.  Just a thought

reply
JohnFine

OH yeah one more thing, until we are able to get to space, we all donate to Asgardia so we can reach our goals and objectives.  It don't matter how much you donate, there is strength in numbers, a little or a lot, it all goes towards our future, a future we all are trying to get to. Just a thought

reply
chen jilong

Finding a country requires the funds of the United Nations

reply
VitaManC3P0

Consider the fact that our nation doesn't have enough wealth to support this right now, but later down the road when we make it to space, get our resources from space, and recognized by the UN as a actual nation. I don't see why this couldn't be plausible, besides the fact that its communism and history has kind of proven that communism fails. 

reply
Panda

懒惰的人拿到了一点点基本收入,发现有工作的人得到的收入更多,他们会不会因此产生动力去工作呢?还是继续懒惰下去?

reply
Alper_Tunga

Olabilir. Ama bu insanları kolay paraya alıştırmamalı. 

reply
salinay

I would like to see this as something which starts small but grows over time.  It could be initially funded with donations, and I would certainly be willing to donate for that purpose.  The problem with universal services is the logistics, cash can work anywhere.

reply
Vladyslav

I'm support this idea!!!

reply
JRAMEZ

Excelente iniciativa que ya se está aplicando en algunos países como Canada y Holanda. Yo la veo como una iniciativa de transición a la Economía Basada en Recursos que promueve Jacque Fresco en la que "se deja de utilizar el dinero, y se declaran los recursos como patrimonio de la humanidad a los que todos tenemos derecho por igual, y mediante la tecnología se garantiza el acceso a todos los seres humanos a cubrir todas sus necesidades".

reply
owenrossi

If not UBI, we should have the basic needs provided, ie; power, water, gas, internet, dwellings and food. Everything else you pay for.

reply
MiguelAl

I'm support the petition!!!!!

reply
Antonio Floren

I think that's a great petition but only applicable when Asgardia have its first territory whether a donation from the ONU, a donation from another country a space station or a colony in another planet or satélite. It can cause real problems with the original countries who am be a threat in Asgardia intentions. I also agree that UBI needs to be first for those who are incapable of doing any job and then to the people who already made any kind of service for the kingdom and at the end only if doesn't affect the economy of our nation start with the older people to the younger. As I said pretty premature but very interesting petition, I'll suported as soon as when have our first colony in space.

reply
Antonio Floren

I think that's a great petition but only applicable when Asgardia have its first territory whether a donation from the ONU, a donation from another country a space station or a colony in another planet or satélite. It can cause real problems with the original countries who am be a threat in Asgardia intentions. I also agree that UBI needs to be first for those who are incapable of doing any job and then to the people who already made any kind of service for the kingdom and at the end only if doesn't affect the economy of our nation start with the older people to the younger. As I said pretty premature but very interesting petition, I'll suported as soon as when have our first colony in space.

reply
asgardiaperu

Asgardians are leading - in motivation, in ideas, in future space projects and much more - Asgardians think different, we are all highly motivated and have one purpose! So a UBI for all Asgardians will NOT cause lazybones - it will free us from financial constraints and give everyone of us the opportunity to devote more time to Asgardia. A UBI for Asgardians will be very different from a UBI for all people on earth!

reply
adresok2

Отличная идея - идея будущего. Это снизит преступность, создаст благоприятную атмосферу, освободит мозги человека для творческого поиска применения своих сил. Только в России это не реально при нашем режиме. Государство на это НИКОГДА не пойдет. НИКОГДА.

reply
Kennetchau

This is never a good idea unless uou can regulate firms to stop transfer cost by firing employee or raising price. Otherwise no matter how much you raise wages, the firm will just raise price to comprehend the cost

reply
darkred225

Asgardia will save mankind their ideas are so fascinating 

reply
Suz

Perhaps it is wise to expand our thinking and try move away from the old linear thinking patterns as humanity has been groomed into being on Earth.  What do you say to it?

How about YES I agree with the automatic income/allowance.  Every person will decide how their life will be influences in a highly Inspired new way of Beingness.  Live longer, more free, learn about higher dimensional healing methods such as Crystal and frequency based tone usage.  Scholarship programs should be free.  Work should not have to be a have to slave your day away like we are used too.  Money could rather be spent on travel, art, communication improvement methods and manufacturing - what people want and need and then barter or trade in cargo with other civilizations within the multiverse or even just our solar galaxy for beginners? 

reply
Zam

In fact i'm agree with the idea of equality and liberty that UBI would provide but i think that Everyone who want to become asgardian has to participate to the evolution of the nation, of course everyone can not participate at the same level and an UBI maybe can favorise the participation of people who can not without it, but it's necessary to proved your implication to asgardia for received the UBI. We have to make sur that wrong people who don't participate of the general effort for a better futur for humanity don't beneficiate of it. People have to proove implication at them level .

Sorry if i did mistakes in spelling or grammars, my english isn't very good  

reply