Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 00:02 UTC

My personal requests for the Constitution  

I don't want to write my own draft, and I'm not egotistical enough to actually believe people will take my opinions to heart and act on them. However, I do have some very serious and very innovative requests for our Constitution. I realize the perspective many of you have going into this (regarding UN recognition and adapting popular systems) however:

  1. Asgardia does not involve with Earth money systems, although still supports it to incentivize space exploration/resource mining. My reason for this request is pretty complicated, so I hope whomever decides to read this actually tries to follow my train of thought here. So here we go: since the beginning of civilization (for the most part) humanity has used either hard currency or fiat currency. If you don't know what these are google them.

If we were to use hard currency our currency system would constantly undergo hyperinflation when we discover things like diamond asteroids, or gold asteroids, or really any of the wonders of space. Hyperinflation is never a good thing for a society historically, and we should avoid it all costs. Hard currency has been historically stable on Earth because resources are clearly much more limited on Earth than in the vastness of space.

Secondly, if we were to use fiat currency we will be carrying over the same rigged system of international banks, consistent inflation, interest rates, and an economic elite who are able to then manipulate the currency secretly (because after all, who actually gives a shit about who controls the currency system?)

  1. We are not a democracy, we are not a republic, we are not communist, we are not capitalist, we are not this that and other failed Earth system. A true democracy has never actually occurred, and it is probably because of the fear of what Plato called a "tyranny of the majority." A similar thing could be said about Communism, it has never actually occurred. By definition, there is no government with communism, for everything is owned by the proletariat. Buttt then there was this whole idea of the "dictatorship of the proletariot" which probably ruined its implementation.

Since communism and capitalism (or democracy, republic, whatever term you like the most) are the most popular Earth systems we should consider the fact that 1. they have never worked out as planned and 2. Perhaps we can come up with something BETTER!!!!

  1. My personal suggestion is that we have ministry leaders, but no executive position. Collective ownership and collectivism in general will be necessary to survive as a space colony. Capitalism is a constant grind and competition to out-compete and out-earn others. We need to be able to live our lives in a constant state of bliss, because things could get violent really quick if we carry over poverty into a space colony. We need to have security, freedom, and equality. Just because Benjamin Franklin said it wasn't possible doesn't mean that it is so.

Really, after all of my thinking and discussions from the past few months, this is what I have come up with. I hope that I can receive some consideration for these ideas because they aren't even mine, and I think we could act on them to create some reallly cool and innovative things for both Asgardia and humanity's progress

  Last edited by:  Samuel Fisher (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 00:09 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: on my draft it shows the numbers 1, 2, and 3 but I don't see them on the post. Oh well.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 05:27 UTC

"Capitalism is a constant grind and competition to out-compete and out-earn others. We need to be able to live our lives in a constant state of bliss, because things could get violent really quick if we carry over poverty into a space colony. "

So the alternative to capitalism, which you describe as a constant grind, is to live in a collectivist "constant state of bliss" by having the State provide for all of our needs? I strongly disagree with that approach, because it breeds a sense of personal entitlement without the person having contributing anything to Asgardia nor taken any personal strides. A guaranteed income by no means is a bad thing; however, my personal opinion is that individual / collective liberty should be one of the biggest focuses of our constitution. Liberty reflects a fundamental part of our humanity, and that includes economic liberty.

My perspective is this. I feel that capitalism--when properly regulated and free from Globalist manipulation--promotes innovation, creativity, personal achievement and the development of an entrepreneurial spirit. What you're describing is predatory capitalism, which I feel is a different thing entirely. Perhaps we have never had a "true" capitalist society, but we have had golden ages of economic booms throughout history in many of Asgardia's member nations who believe in capitalism. USA in the 1950's, France during the enlightenment, China converting today from communism to a form of capitalism, and so forth.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 23:39 UTC

I agree, we should, once established, have no need to involve ourselves with the corruption of Earth's currencies. However, we may have requirement to make use of these in order to establish ourselves. I also don't think this to be a rapid deployment. Further considering the infintite resources of space, once we've started tapping that then to consider the traditional economic supply/demand graph, then a net price of zero for everything would render the concept of currency kind of moot.

I also feel what we establish shouldn't have any parody of Earth system - mostly as they have already all proven themselves failures through one measure or another - and what is better would also be the fairest system (IMHO) of all - we each take collective social responsibility for our individual actions, and as individuals collectively decide our own fates. It's a little difficult to follow the whims of a dictator if they are never allowed to establish their grip on power. The best way to avoid this is to share this equally amongst all. The loose structure I had proposed is similar to yours by way of existing ministries remain, but I'd suggested an easily interchangeable minister to oversee affairs with minimal executive powers, only really able to be enacted in the rare cases where as citizens we cannot agree to common consensus.
Bringing poverty into space is a seriously bad idea - but luckily it'd be incredibly stupid to attempt to build in space, especially with intent to support a large population, before we've secured infinite resources with which to do the building.

To address S. Crawford's concerns, imagine you woke up in the morning, and had no work you had to go to. Let us further pretend that all your needs were met, and within reason, a great deal of your wants - or at least positioned to within easy grasp. Would you sit there and stare at the wall? or would you persue personal interests? In an economy where one cannot measure by obtaining things, as everyone can have the same, the measure of status becomes what you do - how you've spent the same time everyone else has been given. In the persuit of your personal interests, it's likely there's much benefits to be had for Asgardia along the way.

Capitalism stifles innovation, creativity and personal achievement. It moves development into the hands of those able to fund it, and sets a senario where people are unwilling to solve problems they could trivially solve as it doesn't equate a revenue stream. It also gives rise to making problems worse, or developing other problems in the name of solving another in order to generate more revenue. It kills creativity, by nature of having to waste most of your time furthering someone elses agenda in order to obtain required materials in order to continue yours. Long story short, it's responsible for possibly two thirds of the worst facets you can observe currently displayed by Earth.

  Updated  on Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 23:52 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Additional data

Jan 5, 17 / Aqu 05, 01 09:57 UTC

A mash of republic tribal socialism would work... You knock communism then go on to basically describe communism as what you would like to see. Did you notice that?

Jan 14, 17 / Aqu 14, 01 00:00 UTC

Asgardia will never be able to totally break free from the need to involve itself with the currency system of the nations of Earth. Because the nations of Earth have based their economies around them and Asgardia will have a need to engage in trade and when it does what are we supposed to use when trading with those nations? Asgardia will need some kind of physical currency something folks can hold in their hand so they. Would be more willing to trade because the fact that they would be able to feel and see the money in their hand. Will cause them to believe that they have received a payment equal to the goods or services they have provided! Also if Asgardia does decide to use hard currency hyperinflation will not be a problem. It does not matter if the supply of resources is larger in space than on Earth. Because they will not be obtainable at least not immediately. It will take some time before humans can mine asteroid for their resources. Safety protocols, mining tech, mineral detection tech, propulsion tech, mining crafts, AI, and tech designed to reduce the possible and likely radioactive nature of the resources once mined will need to be developed before space mining becomes a reality and that will take decades perhaps even a century or two!

So using hard currency would not present any problems

  Updated  on Jan 14, 17 / Aqu 14, 01 00:01 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 03:01 UTC

Never is a long time. I can do significantly shorter.

Sure, in the early phases there will be a need to interact with Earth currencies. As to the mining not taking place immediately, that will have to happen in order for us to amass the resources to be able to build somwhere for us to be, so will of resolved such issues before then. Who says humans need to be involved? And this can be happening well within a century. A few decades and we can be building the facilities that will be building everything else. Most of the tech is already available. The rest should be within easy reach. The nature of doing that doesn't mean that the supply is larger, it means it's infinite(to your perspective, and that of possible consumption) - Draw a supply/demand graph, any good or service will do. Note what happens to price for goods as the supply increases, specifically at the point where supply hits infinite.

There will always be hyperinflation. The solution is to take the redundant fictional currency out of the equasion.

  Updated  on Jan 15, 17 / Aqu 15, 01 03:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: typo