Jan 28, 17 / Pis 00, 01 04:28 UTC

Re: Need to guarantee religious freedom in Constitution  

I have a personal opinion like everyone, it's true. It doesn't mean I'm close minded or anything like this, just that I have my own values. Yes, religious people generally aren't silent, because they see injustice in the world and want this to be changed. Is it something bad about that? I don't think so.

Personally I appreciate and do religious jokes, even about my own religion, but understand that other can be bother about that, especially is the joke has to objective to hurt.

I think the example given by ka.laszlo of mother Theresa is perfect. Her main purpose was not freedom of speech, but she advocate for it, and much more against the crime of abortion, thing that is often silenced by medias.

Jan 28, 17 / Pis 00, 01 17:05 UTC

A religious organisation is just that, an organisation which should be regarded as a corporation, a fictional entity. Rights and power belong to the people, not to any organization, club, business or non-living entity. Any business or organizational entity should have a public charter which can be revoked by the people if it is not acting towards the benefit of all people. Laws equally adhered to regarding taxation and operation. Failure to maintain chartered responsibilities should result in revocation of said charter. While religion can bring out the good in some people, overall it divides people. Religions are fully capable of colonising an asteroid or ten on their own if they wish. These antiquated ideas should be left on earth, not exported to the stars.

Jan 29, 17 / Pis 01, 01 16:43 UTC

I'm surprised there is such a debate for a minor role topic, because everything (and I mean everything, from religion to race to hobbies) cand build a social net, with all the discrimination risks from both sides (yes, don't play victim, I've been blamed so many times for being atheist). This should be synthesized in a major topic, like freedom of speech and ideas, with no special parts for religion, race or other. I totally agree with randellaa, if we have to change point of view, these ideas should remain on earth

  Last edited by:  Stephen De Rosa (Global Mod, Asgardian)  on Jan 29, 17 / Pis 01, 01 17:09 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Feb 2, 17 / Pis 05, 01 09:46 UTC

I think that religion is personal, Asgardia is a space nation founded on science and of course all the people will be free to pray but if we want to be really united why we are going to separate people ? For example the christian communiy che mulism community etc... all religions and I repeat again ALL religions teach the same basics that is the same basics of a normal conscience. so why we don't unify our vision of religion? or example, why a christian can't or won't pray sit between a mulism and a jewish? A prayer is a prayer, and if there's a god I think he will laugh about us! There's so different religion, and every religion claim to be the real one, we are pretty selfish to think something like that!!!!! The cosmos is so vast and unexplored, and we are a grain of dust...we are the seeds of the future! We need to think and act differently we must show different shades of our leaves united, and we must be proud of it. So I say no to religion community, one community for all religions will teach us respect! (And maybe will open the mind to a better understanding of conscience) we must say no to all radicalism delete and defeate it with knowledge.

  Last edited by:  Matteo Cremasco (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Feb 2, 17 / Pis 05, 01 09:46 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Feb 2, 17 / Pis 05, 01 13:40 UTC

Why does the religion require to have any impact on the community?

That's a personal problem, not a feature of Asgardia. People shouldn't be allowing their personal problems to impact their professional conduct. Should people for some reason feel the requirement to draw borders between themselves and others and segregate themselves into little groups then this shouldn't be allowed to impact everyone else. I personally don't think it's too wise to encourage this self-imposed us/them segregation, but understand and respect these people should be allowed to decide for themselves what it is they would like to believe. Some people like living in a bubble. But allowing them to believe that, and allowing that to impact anything but those individuals that would select for are two seperate things.

It's due to the number of options and intensity of which some choose to persue their personal superstitions that I would personally suggest that all that get left behind - it's the easiest way to solve a lot of problems before they actually become problems. But it's clear some are just not ready to take responsibility for their own action/inaction and thusly unable to reconcile the concept that the consequences of the previous directly and indrectly shape their reality and thusly seek to find external cause for their internal turmoil.

You don't need "religous freedom", specifically, in the constitution. That'll cause problems later more than likely, religous policy and social policy tend to have conflicts of interest, and why any sane government currently existing seperates this - you just need individual freedom of choosing. Something which should generally be considered a basic right, anyway.

The less attention and focus is lent towards religion, and other facets of division, the more cohesively we can operate as a collective. Just in the same way that me wearing a pair of black socks today doesn't impact the formation or operation of Government, someone having a religion should be considered an irrelevant clump of data.

Feb 4, 17 / Pis 07, 01 14:16 UTC

We need freedom FROM religion.

Feb 4, 17 / Pis 07, 01 15:21 UTC

now i like the idea, of having a freedom church on the station, a church where everyone is free to practice whatever religion they want, when they want.

Feb 22, 17 / Pis 25, 01 11:33 UTC

I am an extremely strong Atheist, yet I do not go around telling people that the Deity that they believe in is fake....

I believe that all religion should be welcome in Asgardia....

Feb 23, 17 / Pis 26, 01 04:43 UTC

Well, I just figured I'd pop in and give my two cents. I'm a spiritual atheist. I have some pretty far out there beliefs. Frankly, I think that it is the right of every individual to practice the beliefs that they desire in private, so long as it harms no one. I'll meditate and engage in my new age-y woo, and you can feel free to do whatever you like, and so long as we're not trying to hinder the other, I'd like to think that all of us can coexist. In fact, I would encourage a diversity of beliefs. A completely homogeneous society is never a good thing. I want people to have different beliefs than I do. We can debate and reason together. We'll have differing points of view. So long as things stay civil, they should be allowed in private.

As for public affairs, I do think that things should stay secular. I will not point fingers at any particular ideologies, as I am aware that the workings of a few nuts should not taint my view on the whole, but religion in our past has been responsible for some quite heinous crimes against humanity, as well as the denial of human rights to marginalized groups. I think that in public, we shouldn't allow religion. No public displays, no handing out religious texts, and so on. Feel free to have churches, temples, mosques, etc. as long as they don't disrupt the community, again, I actually would encourage this. I feel like a diverse culture is good, especially as a society that wishes to represent all of humanity. However, despite the benefits of a diverse culture, and the importance of free speech, I think that it is very important to make sure that religion stays out of government. People who are religious can feel free to partake in government affairs, they just need to make sure to keep their beliefs out of the picture and make decisions purely on logic and reason.

tl;dr: In private, everything should go, as long as you aren't infringing on the rights of others. In public, don't disrupt things, but feel free to gather in your places of religious meetings with pride. In terms of laws, human rights should always trump religious rights. So long as you don't force your beliefs on me, I won't force my beliefs onto you.

Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 15:05 UTC

Humanitarian is the concept of asgardia,so each religion should get freedom.

Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 16:09 UTC

Hello. trying to transcribe all the suggestions/opinions into one specific Constitution Suggestion and the one I think best sums up everyone's opinions thus far is the following statement:

You have the right to gather in self-managed groups and speak freely with others with the qualification that you are being honest and respectful to others.

Anyone take issue with this summation?

Mar 22, 17 / Ari 25, 01 16:40 UTC

I propose that anyone desiring to demand religious freedom must first pass the scientific method for all the doctrine that religion espouses. Any "religion" that fails to withstand scientific scrutiny and peer-reviews should be not only be labeled a scam, but publicly and strongly discouraged.

Mar 22, 17 / Ari 25, 01 16:42 UTC

[quote] Re: Need to guarantee religious freedom in Constitution <== I agree with Petrv here. By: petrv(Asgardian) on 27 February 2017, 9:14 p.m.

There MUST be two basic principles included in Constitution of Asgardia:

1) Asgardia is secular

2) Freedom of speech must be guaranteed to all citizens

Religion is internal affair of every human, all religion activities should be held privat. All REAL believers keep theirs faith inside, not parade it in public or trying to convert other to his/her faith - this is not faith, but seekin for power...we have many examples of such behavior in history of all old nations and it must not be allowed in our new nation, I think...[/quote]

  Last edited by:  Richie Bartlett (Asgardian)  on Mar 22, 17 / Ari 25, 01 16:43 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 23, 17 / Ari 26, 01 00:48 UTC

There is nothing special about religions, and in my opinion there should be no special clauses in the constitution for their protection (your all powerful God needs protection? I'm sorry, that is too funny), except a clause that protects freedom of speech and freedom of thought (as others have already mentioned).

All our technology is based on science. Science is going to create Asgardia (hopefully), science is going to bring us out into our solar system, and beyond, not prayers nor belief.

You can believe whatever you want, but do not expect that others should respect your superstitions, they are not special, and bad ideas should always be exposed for what they are; Bad ideas.

Our Earth would be a far better place if people started to make their decisions based on facts, instead of belief.

Jun 22, 17 / Leo 05, 01 00:39 UTC

WOW! I had no idea my initial post would draw so much input. All of which is amazing! Thank you!

It  has been my experience that religion is a tool for mankind to use to  try and control its populations.  Until several people come back from  the dead and can articulate what happens and their stories have some  semblance of the truth. We cannot say where the proverbial soul goes.  Your belief system is something of faith. Which to me is a personal  choice and should not be pushed or forced on anyone.  If I may be so  bold, not wanting to offend anyone, religion in my opinion has immensely  tainted this planet.  We have wars over it, people senselessly kill  each other over it.  

And yet there are many good things  that have come from religion as well. People can use faith to help  themselves get through addiction or difficult times in their life.  Many  churches across the world, help feed, clothe and shelter the poor.

Again thank you for all the input.  I really enjoyed reading everyone's point of view.