Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 15:38 UTC


So... having only just come onto the forums, I've already noticed the renaming of this particular forum.

Now, I'm just going to put this out there, not trying to start an argument but just give my two cents. I know that atheists will always have their issues with religion and vice versa. But would it be hard to accept elements from both if it helps you become a better and wiser person? Despite being raised Anglican Christian, I grew more and more interested in science's way f explaining everything. Yet, however naïve it may be of me, I still have a bit of religious believe in me, for various reasons I won't bore you with.

And there are countless examples of famous scientists who believed in religion. Copernicus, Sir Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, Johannes Kepler and Galileo just to name a few.

Science makes us wise, religion gives us empathy. Rather than ostracise one over the other, would it not seem better to take elements from both to create ideals to live by?

Of course, it's late where I am right now and I'm tiredly rambling a little, so yeah. Just my thoughts on the issue.

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 16:35 UTC

We should have a mix in society.

For faith or lack there of on a personal level, to each their own. An atheist haven't decided "I don't WANT to belive in gods, so I'll stop", it's a realization "I don't belive their is a god", just as theists didn't decide they wanted to belive in god. We don't knowingly choklad this. So to tell people to mix... well it just doesn't work.

You said " I know that atheists will always have their issues with religion and vice versa." Your generalizing knowledge is wrong. I don't have issues with religion. I have issues with people pushing their faith on others, I have problem with people ignoring science when it doesn't agree with their religion. I have a problem with adults deciding what the kids will be allowed to belive. I have issues with organized religion. I have issues with society giving privilliges to certain religions, disrespecting other and giving tax money to organized religions. I have issues with those who try to mix church and politics. I have issues with those who think others should apply to the rules of their religion (abortion, lgbtqia+, and so on). I have issues when religion disturb education. I don't have any issue with what others belive, the religion itself. But I have issues with behaviours people justify with their religion.

Also wanted to point out that this statement doesn't work "Science makes us wise, religion gives us empathy" No, empathy have zero connection to religion. Their are religious people with and without empathy, same goes for atheists.

I wish to clearify that I am not angry, attacking or anything like that. I offer my perspective on the matter and correcting statements I know are wrong.

Have a good (whatever fits your timezone).

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 18:13 UTC

Thank you for saying that, Rikard. As an atheist I sometimes wish I could believe in a god. Religion is an interesting thing to me. The culture, beliefs, rituals and temples are usually very beautiful and interesting.

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 19:02 UTC

¿Se comporta así la naturaleza? ¿Discrimina sus individuos como lo hace la humanidad? ¿Le otorga más valor a uno que a otro?

En la naturaleza las nubes son iguales en la diversidad y valoración, los arboles son todos iguales en su diversidad, los climas, los animales, las flores, las aves etc. La naturaleza es una, en igualdad en su diversidad es lo que conforma su belleza y esplendor

Antes que diferentes somos iguales. Primero somos iguales luego diferentes. Primero valemos todos lo mismo, luego cada uno es distinto. Porque así es la naturaleza.

Pensamos al revés decimos primero somos distintos y en algún punto seremos iguales, o no. Somos de diferentes fisionomía, sexo, raza, religión, país, región, costumbre, creencia, posición social, pensamiento, etc. Pero si basamos nuestra valoración en las infinitas diferencias es un hecho que habrá conflicto, odio, guerra.

No estás separado de nadie, así como no está separado el dedo meñique de la mano. No eres ni serás más importante o más valioso que nadie, así como nadie es ni será más valioso que ti. He aquí la igualdad.

Todos somos valiosos por igual. Así es la Naturaleza. Así es la Naturaleza Humana y así piensa la nueva Humanidad.

Asgardianos la aventura de la creación de una nueva nación es apasionante, es una oportunidad para dar el ejemplo.

No estaría bien que se generase un nacionalismo Asgardiano , implicaría división el mismo error que llevan las naciones en el mundo, así nos fuéramos a los confines del universo llevaríamos el conflicto y las guerras al espacio.

Mientras el Ser Humano se aferre a una creencia ,doctrina, religión, nacionalismo, etc. estará poniéndose de un bando, creyéndose separado, considerándose más o menos que otros, distinto, diferente, dividiéndose a sí mismo de los demás y de sí mismo. Enajenándose. Desconociéndose.

Lamentablemente pienso que quien crea que su religion,nacionalismo,etc es mas importante en su vida que la premisa de igualdad, NO debe ser un Ciudadano de Asgardia. Que se quede aferrado a su dogma o creencia.

Un ciudadano de Asgardia debiera representar la Humanidad como Una.

Si he de pertenecer a algo la verdad es que solo pertenezco a la Nación Humana la única que existe, bajo el nombre que quieran ponerle, se debiera encarnar la Igualdad de los Seres Humanos por sobre todas las diferencias. Solo así podrá el hombre alcanzar la integración y la paz en este u otros mundos.


Does nature behave like this? Does it discriminate against its individuals as does humanity? Do you give more value to one than to another?

In nature, clouds are equal in diversity and valuation, trees are all the same in their diversity, climates, animals, flowers, birds, etc. Nature is one, in equality in its diversity is what conforms its beauty and splendor

Before we are different we are the same. First we are equal then different. First we are all worth the same, then each one is different. Because that's nature.

We think backwards we say first we are different and at some point we will be equal, or not. We are of different physiognomy, sex, race, religion, country, region, custom, belief, social position, thought, etc. But if we base our assessment on the infinite differences, it is a fact that there will be conflict, hatred, war.

You are not separated from anyone, just as the little finger is not separated from the hand. You are not or will be more important or more valuable than anyone, just as no one is nor will be more valuable than you. Here is equality.

We are all valuable equally. This is Nature. This is Human Nature and so the new Humanity thinks.

Asgardians the adventure of creating a new nation is exciting, it is an opportunity to set the example.

It would not be well for Asgardian nationalism to be generated, it would imply dividing the same error as the nations in the world, so if we went to the ends of the universe, we would bring conflict and wars into space.

As long as the Human Being clings to a belief, doctrine, religion, nationalism, etc. He will be putting himself on one side, believing himself to be more or less different, different, different, dividing himself from others and from himself. Alienating. Not knowing.

Unfortunately, I think that whoever believes that his religion, nationalism, etc. is more important in his life than the premise of equality, he should NOT be a Citizen of Asgardia. Let him cling to his dogma or belief.

A citizen of Asgardia should represent Humanity as One.

If I belong to something the truth is that only I belong to the Human Nation the only one that exists, under the name they want to put it, should be embodied Equality of Human Beings above all differences. Only in this way can man achieve integration and peace in this and other worlds.

NOTE: The above translation was provided by Google. In the future, please provide posts in English per the forum rules. Thank you

  Last edited by:  Ryan Zohar (Asgardian)  on Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 20:49 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Translation

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 19:41 UTC

Greetings to all!!! This really is quite interesting, I know that Asgardia is fully secular but each of us has certain beliefs which must be respected and our beliefs should not be limiting so that together we can share and work in Asgardia, I am a Christian I believe firmly in God and I maintain my belief, but also I love the technology and I am professional in that area. I am a Computer Technician and I tell you that being a Christian does not prevent me and it is not a problem for me to share with people from many cultures and beliefs. Beliefs of each one should not be a limitation and also should not be motive of insults and indiscrimination because if so then the purpose of Asgardia would not make sense. I hope every day I can meet many people who love technology like me no matter what their belief or ideology. Regards!!!!

  Updated  on Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 19:42 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 00:20 UTC

Co-existence can be done and should be. Historicaly, conflict have emerge from the differences of each nations. It may the tone of our skin, our language, our way of life or our belief. And this is sad, so sad.

We still have conflict in regard of these differences and, today, we got an opportunity to bring more to one species than just conflicts about diffences. There is plenty of discussion, just to name only that one, about religions. Religion freedom and freedom of religions and other discussion names I don't remember well.

Some people use their belief or non-belief and try to make more sense than others. Some wont, and sometimes, they are more that they won't try to do so, because they believe in true freedom of thoughts, belief, speech. In a first attempt to make people gather under one idea, Dr. Ashurbeyli brang the idea that religion should be a personal matter. Something to not bring toward others, expecialy because no one know how people will take the information flow. Many got obsess about close to everything ... so it's hard to know now. xD

As it been said by some here, in this discussion, not because you believe in something, that this make you unfit for something some of these same faith believers think is opposed to the belief itself. Living, and letting other live.

I do love the aspect of religion and what, way before it was brang by some powertrip guy with different texts to the main concept, it present for guide of life. I don't think we need that, but it is also okay, for me, that some feel good by believing in something. To my view, don't bother me with your faith, and I won't bother you with mine (even if I'm an atheist, in some way, it seem to be seen as a belief too). Respect bring respect.

Again, yes, I think we could perfectly co-exist all together.

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 02:01 UTC

Dear fellow Asgardians,

Can I advise you to follow the debate: " NEED TO GUARANTEE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN CONSTITUTION" into the ministry of justice - Constitution part?

It´s all about this. Some people wants to restrain freedom of speech by prohibiting to speak about religion, considering we´re all "ignorant followers", dening that lots of great scientific minds are or were believers...

I hope I can count on your participation on that debate to push a freedom of religious freedom into the future constitution

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 18:57 UTC

Very good points from all. Co-existence should be based on tolerance and freedom to chose no? Shouldn't the idea be for everyone to make her/his own choice based on education and knowledge from all sources, religions, countries, institutions, etc. without pre-conceived opinions? Then debate freely and present her/his argumentation for her/his choice in order to promote knowledge and fight ignorance? Let the people decide based on facts and their various interpretations in dignity, integrity, respect and humility?

In response to Aribrunbit... would you compare your head to your body?

To Atheists, atheism is the lack of belief in God or gods, which in some way means you are halfway there... the other half is: There is no God... but God. :D

Peace out and good luck with Asgardia (psst, Asgardia comes from Norse mythology Asgard, which was the place where the Norse gods dwelled and entry was reserved for the dead Heroes slain in earthly battle on their way to Valhalla...)

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 12:11 UTC

The only way to co-exist is to remove religion from the public. No religion in politics. No public displays of religion including wearing religious garbs. No combining religion with research and development.

There are plenty of nations on earth where you can enjoy your religion. I would encourage you to seek out those nations rather than corrupt this new nation with any religion.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 16:59 UTC

Science without religion is materialism. Religion without science is superstition.á%27í_Faith

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 18:12 UTC

I want to say many thanks to Rikard.Korpklo because he delivered me from the having to write a lot of words in nonnative language for me :) Because his presentation is an exhaustive. There is no problem with any religion - until then one of them starts to try dominate and impose its own rules to surrounding people.

Just remember: your freedom ends where the freedom of another begins. If you are do not consider acceptable some actions of other people on your religious reasons - you are feel free don't do it. But try to force them don't do it also - it is violence, and that shouldn't be. Adherents of any religions as well as atheists, should not have any benefits and any special rights in relation to others - only it's able to keep society from development of negative trends. And it's something that will look appropriate in the Asgardia Constitution.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 18:25 UTC

+1 tylergillies :)

Totally agree with that. And thinking that the universe is only material and nothings something really difficult to believe for the physicist I am ( for those interested see the post about that in physical science), because there are some much things that can't be defined or explained only with matter.

Dec 24, 16 / Cap 23, 00 19:11 UTC

Nicely put tylergillies.

To daiwa34... co-existence is dependent on the ability of people to accept one and another for their differences and their likenesses in peace... and not, as you stipulate without argumentation, based on the removal of religion. The only corrupting factors are and always have been envy, greed, anger and ignorance, and not religion as you simply label. Research without ethics is simply criminal... even in space.

Religion is the expression of faith... you should review the story of the first flight plane and maybe, you might have a glimpse at the power of faith. To succeed, we don't need less faith, we need more of it.

Peace out.

Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 09:26 UTC

I believe science can understand religion and how it formed, around people, around leaders, around mans and womans that started tribal behaviors of worship, mostly, Death Worship Rituals.

Religion born when a man decide to worship a totem, a god, a dead man, as his master. Is understand how we worship the thunder, the rain, the sun, our firstly gods of nature. You guys have a cristalized mind of religion is only a pray to god thing.

Open your mind, understand the history of the religion since tribals rituals. And we can find another civilization in the universe who may have tribal rituals religious or spitiuals. I dont know, how knows? I am not here to proof God, or convert you to believe in a God Human-Like that created the universe.

I believe this part of forum is to research ours tribal rituals and spiritual behaviors of worship, pray, and how it can convert ours moments of fear in determination.

I dont know if you get me, but... i'm not here to fight in what god is owner of the universe, but asking what is god? and what mean god to us?

Everyone today have a vision of God, and they are not at all equal.

Research God, is research the human spirit, the breath of life.

Forget your dogmas.

Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 10:43 UTC

"Yes, anybody can make up his mind, but the end result must be the same." by Dirk Baeyens

The unconditional acceptance of differences between us with honest, personal, private unconditional love and unconditional gratitude that is so.

This way we leave personal need to be right and superior over others. Rather we respect each other at the maximum level we can.

We need protect tolerance so punish need to be big if someone try on public convert someone opinion or if try to put self or self God over others or other God. All leaders of religions should sit at same table with respect to each other and on their way promote tolerance and respect, e.g discussion should be run so similarities are pointed rather then differences.

I truly hope we will create new society where religion and religious belief systems (including of atheist, agnostic, etc.) will coexist together. :)

Val :)

Temples, Churches, Mosques, TV channel of one of religion, newspapers of one of religion, flyers of one of religion etc. are the public places or public way of informing and should be treated that way!

Also if someone ring on mine door to convert and / or stop me on public place with aim to convert me or call me to their temple ... should also be seen as not respect of mine freedom to chose mine set of beliefs and should be treated that way.

Promotion of tolerance and equality with every other belief system should be imperative at every place (even the very private one, in the our heart) but need to be strongly protected at every public place especially by every member of that belief system.

  Last edited by:  Tomislava Lovakovic (Asgardian)  on Dec 25, 16 / Cap 24, 00 11:31 UTC, Total number of edits: 5 times