Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:09 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Declaration of Unity  

As a constitution it needs some legal reviewing, for an example .. A. you missed to state the official language of Asgardia. B. In the article number 9 of the constitution, I believe it needs a rephrase, I think what you meant that ( Earthly political affairs is banned from practicing on the Asgardian territory) C. In the article number 11 of the constitution, I suggest a rephrase ( Practicing religion in public is forbidden, thus, it is allowed to practice religion in the private properties, on condition that it doesn't affect peace and order in Asgardia

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:18 UTC

Interpretation is subjective to each person's background, personal beliefs and situation. I'm pretty sure all of us here understand the intent of this document. I am also pretty sure all of us here agree with the intent, need and meaning of this document.

This document describes our belief system (if you can allow that wording) which will direct our day-to-day lives within the constitution. The statements in this document are the basis for our unification into an homogeneous society. It is a set of beliefs/statements that we must agree with as an Asgardian citizen (please see decree N3). The document also describes our core beliefs of how Asgardia and Asgardian citizens interact with other nations and people. Therefore this document must be grammatically correct and the phrasing and wording must clearly describe the intended meaning within the languages it is written (in this case English).

Without meaning any disrespect or criticism to the writers of this document it is extremely poorly written for an English document of such importance. The intent is definitely there, however the wording does not clearly describe the intent or meaning. In this state the wording is leading to debate along personal points rather than the unification of the society as a whole.

My point is not to criticise. I would like to suggest that the document be parsed by a person who has English as their first language and experience at document writing, at least at a business or HR (and possibly legal) level.

Having said the above, I understand that this document was most likely conceived and drafted in Russian or some similar language. I am positive in that language the grammar and phrasing described the intent and meaning perfectly. Obviously at a later date all Asgardia official documents need to be translated into other languages. I would like to suggest that the same principle I have suggested above be applied to all such translations. This will go a long way towards removing misunderstandings and clearly explaining the tenants of Asgardian society to all peoples.

Again, please understand I am not criticising. It is simply that descriptive meaning is often difficult to bridge in a different language.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:23 UTC

The personal certificated is the second stage of certification?

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:26 UTC

I have not read all comments yet, but I have found a few things that I think might confuse people. Ever since I joined asgardia it was referred to as "space nation" now in this draft, there is no mentioning of "nation", and I honestly do not think that country (implies physical land to me) or state (sounds like a part of a nation) are the best terms for asgardia.

In 3. the word future should be removed, otherwise it would render the document, or at least that paragraph useless, once the constitution is finalized.

In 9. Is too vague, a political system without parties can have various forms, most of which would cause me to leave. I hope it's a reference to direct democracy, that would a) be great and b) the only acceptable political system I know of that doesn't need political parties.

The suffix should be modified to say "everything possible"

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:33 UTC

Adding on to many other's concern regarding point 12.

"There is no place for Earth history in Asgardia. Asgardia creates a new history of the future of the humankind."

There should be a place for Earth's history. I believe it is important for us to be educated on our Earth's true history, but not the one-sided story in the textbooks. It is important for us to learn from our predecessors to recognize their mistakes so we can prevent and overcome them together.

Furthermore, I think point 12 need some more clarification/elaboration to justify it's reason of being there.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:34 UTC

First of all, I would like to say that I am honored to be a member of the Asgardia, the first is inspired by its ideas, a new space country based on peace, science and technology, philosophy and law, since the earth has never been for thousands of years The real peace, the war with all kinds of big and small conflicts never stop for whatever reason, because of the progress of modern science and technology can enter the space, at the moment human rethink how to be permanent and true peace from earth interference, But also for the human in the universe to find the eternal future, this is my motivation to join, very pleased that this new country is set up and become a model, is the eternal torch of mankind.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 00:54 UTC

I am a little confused as to the declaration and its goal. I don’t see anything that mentions gays which means that the risk is that in the future their rights can be denied.

Concerning politics, I think that that is an unrealistic expectation. You can’t get around politics in a society or community. Eventually it is going to come down to one interest pushing for preference over another. People will always choose sides and whichever they choose will be the most important to them and they will undoubtly form groups of like minded individuals and will advocate for their particular importance of ideals. I believe that twelve or thirteen ministries have already been named and those will become your political parties, eventually. A nation has to be governed and there will be different ideas about how to do that and in a process of election one group will favor one candidate and the other will favor another and there is your politics. The expectation of no politics is in itself an idealogy and another idealogy will arise to compete and there is your politics.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 01:16 UTC

No place for politics, yet, we have a self-appointed government? I don't like the way this is going. This declaration is way too vague and way too open to interpretation. I am assuming that this declaration falls under the jurisdiction of international law? Do we have anyone who could comment on that, please? If that is the case, can you help with the interpretation item by item (from a legal point of view, please.) This is too vague and I'm not sure what it is I am agreeing with exactly.

I must say that I share my feelings of concern with the others who feel there are too many loose ends.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 01:48 UTC

While I think that the Declaration of Unity can use some polishing, I think that it is an incredible declaration. I can understand why articles 9 and 12 will meet with opposition, I can fully appreciate their full intent. Former political, nationalistic and history must be released if Asgardia is to be a nation unlike those before it and be one of full unification. How can there be true unity if we cling to the very things that have caused the most decent and division?

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 02:35 UTC

@Jason Rainbow in that case, this is my opinion:

1. Asgardia is a free and unified space state. OK. Can we define "Unity?" What do we mean by unified? Since the purpose is to declare unity, we must be clear as to what we mean by that so, please, make sure it is defined.


2. The objectives of Asgardia are to: • ensure peace in space • ensure the protection of planet Earth and the entire humankind from outer space threats; • ensure equal opportunities in space for all Asgardians living on Earth, regardless of geographic, financial, technological and other features of the countries of their earthly citizenship.

OK. I understand this clearly and I agree with this, but this does not define "Unity." Still, I think I understand why you put it here and I think it is good to remind people what our mission is and the reason why it requires "Unity."


3. Any citizen of Earth can become a citizen of Asgardia, if he concurs with this Declaration, accepts the Future Constitution and legislation of Asgardia. This is very reasonable -- I agree. If you don't agree with our mission why do you want to be here? You must agree and uphold this values as a citizen of Asgardia.


4. All citizens of Asgardia are equal, regardless of their country of origin, residence, citizenship, race, nation, gender, language, or financial standing. Like my fellow Asgardians have said, we must be sure everyone is protected and feels secure if they want to be part of Asgardia. We must find a way for this statement to be all-inclusive without risking being misinterpreted as being exclusive of some people because we forgot to mention them.


5. Asgardia respects the laws of the states on Earth and the international agreements and wishes to be recognized as equal country among other states on Earth. Are we going to wish forever to be recognized? Do we want the Declaration of Unity to remain as the heritage for future Asgardians? Please, get rid of the part that says "and wishes to be recognized as equal country among other states on Earth." We know that's our goal now, but when we achieve it, if this Declaration is meant to be permanent, that sentence is going to sound strange (even with the historical reference). We must write with the future in mind -- let's look ahead and don't get stuck on the moment because our situation is going to be in constant change, but our ideals and goals most remain constant.


6. Asgardia does not interfere in the affairs of the states on Earth on the principle of reciprocity. 7. Asgardia takes part in events on Earth at an international level, like any other country, based on its membership in respective international organizations. Agree.


8. Asgardia respects the rights of citizens of Earth states, and protects the rights of its own citizens when it comes to their exclusive rights as citizens of the Space State. What Space State? Asgardia? Please, make sure you write Asgardia Space State. This is good practice to avoid future confusion, especially with Asgardians who don't speak one of the main languages and have to use the auxiliary English language.


9. Asgardia does not engage in politics, there is no place for political parties in Asgardia. But every Asgardian can freely participate in political life on Earth. This is not realistic, and it is unreasonable. By virtue of seeking recognition as a state, Asgardia is engaging in politics. We also have a political body that was self-appointed and we will have elections. Politics cannot be overridden because, in one way or another, the question of governance will be present. Unless you are planning a monarchy or a dictatorship of some sort. And in that case, you are still engaging in politics while excluding those who are not part of the governing elite. That is unacceptable by the standards Asgardia wants to be measured by and wants to measure by. We must device a system that works and that is corruption-proof. This will take time, but you will see it will become necessary for a functioning state.


10. Asgardia mirrors the Earth, but it does not respect the Earth borders. At the same time, in the framework of earthly law every Asgardian can freely live within the borders of any earthly country. This sounds dangerous. How can you not respect Earth borders? Are yo planning to invade a country? Please, clarify this and reword it.


11. Asgardia is a country of free spirit, science and internationalism. At the same time, every Asgardian can freely practice any religion on Earth. What is "free spirit" and what does it have to do with religion? Please, define this term. Maybe religion should have a separate point? Just a suggestion.


12. There is no place for Earth history in Asgardia. Asgardia creates a new history of the future of the humankind. Agree with everybody else, one should not forget history at the expense of becoming guilty of repeating its mistakes. History is important and future generations need to learn it. Maybe rephrase this because I think this is not what you meant to say.


We, the people of Asgardia, will do everything for the prosperity of our new space country created by us; for the protection of our motherland - planet Earth; and development of the entire humankind in space. Interesting. What is "everything?" This word is very vague. This needs to be rephrased to something more concrete like "We, the people of Asgardia, have the duty to fight for the prosperity..." Or "We, the people of Asgardia, must work together for the prosperity..." You need an action verb, not a pronoun.

__

One humanity - one unity. This Declaration is a primary document for the creation of the ASGARDIA - the Space State


This is my opinion dear fellow Asgardians.

~Yovy.
~~One humanity. One unity.

  Last edited by:  Yoevelyn Rodriguez (Asgardian, Comm Assistant)  on Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 02:44 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Fixing spelling mistakes.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 02:36 UTC

The declaration of unity has been forked (a technical term for versioned derivates of a virtual entity) and corrected to fulfill international standards, human rights, a clean anti-discrimination foundation and the guarantee of equality.

See: https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/constitution-132/topic/declaration-of-unity-correction-fork-4553/

The topic is meant as a decoupled discussion of the fork, please send your comments about the correction fork to the topic linked above.

The announced declaration of unity is incomplete and far away from a solid (legal) entity.

Thank you for participating.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 02:45 UTC

@ nihylum "page not found" message when you click on the link.

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 02:50 UTC

Yeah, the topic has been killed by the moderators, because of lack of knowledge of standardised principles. I am on it for a topic recovery.

If no topic recovery will be done, the fork will vanish from the internet and all of my initiatives will be stopped here. I am not open for censorship or useless content control.

  Updated  on Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 02:52 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 03:09 UTC

Hello,

Nilhylm's thread was removed because this thread was created for all suggested changes to the Declaration of Unity. We want all of them here and not on separate threads for easy tracking and compilation of discussions and suggested changes. He is free to share it and discuss it here with all of the other suggestions to this document.

Kind regards,
Rebekah Berg, Lead Community Administrator, Asgardia

Mar 28, 17 / Tau 03, 01 03:17 UTC

I don't suggest a change. I suggest an entire rewrite. It's a fork and not meant as feedback. What you do is censorship and will cost you initiatives and projects.