Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 04:19 UTC

Asgardian passport (International)  

Muje lagta hai ki asgardian ka passport ho,aur free visa mile,taki hamlog pritbi ki har jaga ja seke air waha ka culture, education, science,development ke bare mein sik seke,aur asgardia ko Jada se Jada contributions de seke.

I have the Asgardian passport and visa were free so we could Pritbi air that every jug of Culture, Education, Science, Development about Sik toast, and the atmost Contribusns could Asgrdia.

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  Last edited by:  Alessandro Fiume (Asgardian)  on Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 04:42 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 11:17 UTC

Having a physical passport costs money (not only creating it but also sending it to the people as well as maintaining a secure infraestructure), not to mention all the effort that has to be done in order to be considered a nation and have the passport accepted globaly.

With that being said, it would be great to create a secure and digital passport which would cost some ammount of money in order to provide some income which could help create and maintain the infraestructure needed for it to work.

That makes me also think about Asgardia currency... so much to think about...

Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 16:26 UTC

As mentioned, the biggest barrier would be getting other nations to accept it as valid. Something that will likely be easier once we have UN recognition as a valid nation.

The cost to the passport is quite minor, in terms of the passport itself. The facilities in which they are to be produced are not so cheap, assuming you obsberve published guidelines. But, thankfully, that's mostly a cost that is only required to be endured once.

I'm willing to bet that AIRC has R&D facilities that would (assuming they are following sane practices for R&D facilites) tick most boxes for passport production services, at least in terms of secured access. If there's room in there to partition off, or maybe bolt onto the side, then the cost of these facilities could be reduced pretty much to what it requires to run on a day-to-day basis - the actual fabrication of the passports and making securely available parts of the database for border control points to confirm validity.

As to the currency... Initially I'd suggest some blockchain-esque type thing, similar to bitcoin. As it's unlikely that this will be an accepted form of currency outside of our borders for some time, then I'd not suggest that this is anything of a priority and instead just work with the locally relevant currency where required for now.

Dec 21, 16 / Cap 20, 00 21:58 UTC

Yes, when I think about the passport creating cost, I'm thinking not only about the document, but the process of producing it, which at the end translates into passport costs, and would be great to have some sort of income in order to make it viable.

As well, completly agree on you about the currency, is not a real priority and a blockchain tech would be the perfect fit (Senegal have just started to use a blockchain currency; but its using a private company to manage it, I'm not sure that is a good idea though). As well as creating it probably would call the attention of speculator which might be an issue in the long term.

Dec 22, 16 / Cap 21, 00 13:38 UTC

I disagree with a digital passport, as matter of security it would be too easy to "spoof" someone's else ID. We should crowfund something so every Asgardian can receive it at an affordable price for him.

Dec 23, 16 / Cap 22, 00 09:41 UTC

Dear Asgardians, I suggest the International Passport to have the Asgadia Insignia Printed on top of it.Otherwise odinary passports would have no difference with ours..

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 03:30 UTC

I sense a misunderstanding of the underlying systems in play.

As a matter of security, the digital component of passports was introduced due to the ease of which the physical documents are spoofed. It also allows easier checking with the issuing nation that the document is still valid. Almost every border control point now has access to card readers etc that read digital passports.

The passport itself should be a physical object, however, it should contain digital technology. This is common for a lot of nations, and would simply provide another layer of authenticity to the document, as the digital component (designed/implimented correctly) will be nigh-on impossible to spoof. Just as it's practically impossible for you to spoof the certificates I use to connect to my VPN, or my GPG keys. I would invite you to try.

Crowdsourcing in order to provide this is certainly an option - and one that is likely to be employed at some point. A few cunning repurposements of existing resources however may allow to significantly reduce the start-up costs of this initiative, and as most nations issue such documents at a profit it's highly likely to be able to encompass the costs whilst retaining a similar price as most other nations.

Passports of one nation do not look like passports to that of another. Anyone that thinks otherwise should pay more attention to things like the holograms, IR inks, UV inks, the patterns in the background and other features placed into the document to make it more difficult to spoof. As these were all implimented independantly no two look the same, and is the primary method border agents use in ascertaining viability of the document.

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 04:42 UTC

Surely there would be some way to verify existing costs for established passport systems? Maybe the 'companies' involved with producing the equipment and providing the maintenance contracts could give an idea to monetary specifics so we could then decide if crowdfunding is feasible. I would think national laws would have to be evaluated as well. There are quite a few nations that do not allow their citizens to hold more then one passport. I can see countries viewing this step as invasive in some ways... just some thoughts. But in the end, I most certainly think we would need to wait for UN acceptance before the passport step is ever seriously considered.

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 22:45 UTC

Typically, a nation produces it's passports itself to mitigate security concerns. It's not common for them to publish their costs, profit margins etc as it's commonly a subsection of government.

Crowdfunding is definitely feasible. If we have to. I don't know where you learned to do math, but whatever the "monetary specifics are" it's doable. Lets pull a rediculous figure out of the hat, $10,000,000 USD for facilities, securing them(to my level of secure. Secluded location - subterrainian - Landmine perimeter, motion activated turrets, SAM and assured total destruction in the remote possibility of physical breach) and the first batch of required materials, then that's less than $17.50/head - A more than realistically feasible number for the greater percentile.

Nations that only allow citizens to only hold one passport don't actually require to be informed of the second - if it's that much of a issue to them - I know plenty of people with more than two, and at least one is from a country that doesn't allow multiple. For a more "responsible" outlook - they should possibly decide for which one they would actually like.

UN acceptance is wisest, indeed - but not required. It just means there's more chance of it being accepted in nations that are not our own. IMHO it's more useful in tracking migration of citizens around our infrastructure - space being big is likely to feature many locations, and that's just LEO - than admitting our citizens to their country. Travel visa for example is a way of entering a country without a passport. Legally at least. There's more. Otherwise easiest method is to just file a flight plan that lands at a private airport, not much customs there usually. No-one tends to bother the pilot for documents. Smaller ports can also be useful - small charter vessels etc. Like everything, there's always ways and means for the determined.

Jan 1, 17 / Aqu 01, 01 18:04 UTC

Not sure what you are insinuating with 'dont know where you learned math' as I did no equations in my statement. Crowd sourcing an idea without knowledge of real life costs (monetary specifics) is 'unknown' as to whether or not it is [doable], its a crap shoot. No prudent investor/backer would fund anything if there was not a laid out cost analysis for that which they are investing in.

Ill reiterate that it should be easy enough to verify with equipment manufacturers and 'contractors' (that do the actual work) as to specifics. Especially when approached as a potential 'client'. Then scaling the system to present interests and potential future growth. is the first thing that popped up on a quick internet search.

Happiest New Year to all and looking forward to a brighter future.

Jan 1, 17 / Aqu 01, 01 23:09 UTC

The development of passports is not a simple process. It takes time and a lot of money.

There are a significant number of security features built into passports which are not visible to the naked eye - most of which are only visible using the required tools. It is not something that you can just "simply print". Therefore is a significant financial outlay we currently are not in a position to do.

Additionally, by holding an Asgardian passport does not mean that you will be permitted entry into other countries on this document. There are a number of counties where their passports are not recognised by other nations and are to permitted entry into that country on the unrecognised passport.

While the discussion of passports is great, please be aware that this step will be some time in the future.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 01:28 UTC

Agree with Alan...

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 01:28 UTC

Double post... apologies

  Last edited by:  Christopher Salfelder (Asgardian)  on Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 01:29 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: duplicate...

Jan 3, 17 / Aqu 03, 01 01:50 UTC

The fact no equasions was performed was kind of obvious. It doesn't matter what the number is, we can do it. As for real life costs, it would depend on many factors. Mostly where the facilities are built, if they are built from scratch or recycle a previously secure installation, and what final form the passport takes. Knowing that you could begin to cost up.

No sane nation contracts out their passport production, as letting the materials required to produce these outside of your control is the easiest way to see unautherised copies in circulation. This commonly done in the most secure of conditions - in most places even more secure than their mints. Some share with their mints. It comonly requires materials that feature restrictions on purchase. Regardless, printers, inks, paper featuring watermarks, embossed detailing, holograms etc are easily obtained, and considering the diversity of our populations skill base, easily built from scratch if needs must.

I'm not sure what "interests" you'd be talking about, but potential growth is that of the population. It might not ever end up being any use on Earth, but it's almost certainly required to track citizen migration patterns across infrastructure. Therefore any Asgardian planning to move from where they are born would likely require one. Once we get out of Earth's orbit we will soon cover vast distances indeed. Expirational dates commonly found on Earth passports are likely to be unsuitable for Asgardian uses.

It does take time to build a a new passport template - about a week, maybe two, with the right team sorting it out. This possibly may require two teams, one to work on the digital features, the other to work on the physical. Most of this time is spent testing the product. Both teams will preferably have experience in/of fraud, and therefore be in a position to construct something difficult to replicate, or spoof. First time. Getting hold of IR, UV, or optically variable inks isn't impossible, and pretty simple for the right minded to produce from scratch -=- and it's all printed using pretty standard printer technology(though, cheap low quality home printers are unlikely to produce to high enough quality), commonly available in most homes. What most homes don't have(beyond the inks) is the papers, watermarks, holograms and other security features(these are also not overly difficult to replicate to the determined). I predict the difficult parts being setting up a CSCA and managing CRL.

For folks wishing to learn more of passports, I would suggest IACO document 9303 and technical amendments, and RFC 5280 for some background knowledge on PKI,

  Updated  on Jan 3, 17 / Aqu 03, 01 01:52 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo

Jan 4, 17 / Aqu 04, 01 19:29 UTC

Hi EyeR,

Just want to touch on some points in your last paragraph.

Some counties passports take up to 5 years to develop for each series. Unfortunately home printers are not going to be suitable to print these. All passports generally have up tp 4 different types of printing processes to make one passport. 1 of these processes, the printers are restricted and can cost up to $500,000. The templates are around $250,000 just to have the templates cut.

All paper used in passports are special security paper, therefore the paper used at home will not be sufficient. If we were to start printing passports at home, every Asgardian attempting to use them will be held up and likely face potential criminal charges for counterfeit or fraudulent passports.

I have previous border security experience, and if someone presented a home printed passport with none of the standard security features, I would certainly have been detaining them and forwarded to the relevant law enforcement for criminal prosecution.