Gem 02, 03 / Apr 24, 19 20:58 UTC

Certificate of Citizenship  

So now apparently to verify your citizenship you have to get a certificate of citizenship. 

€1000.00? Are you serious? 

This is stated in the most recent release of the citizenship law, Decree 35.

As if anyone in their right mind would pay this. 

You need to pay a Citizenship fee of €100 to be a citizen, oh no wait now you need a certificate, that will be €1000 please. What's next? €10,000? 

I'm literally one step away from discarding this whole thing, what a shame 

Gem 03, 03 / Apr 25, 19 09:21 UTC

This is indeed disgraceful.  It's reasonable that they want some form of income but the amounts of money that they are asking are ridiculous we are not getting anything tangible in return. We were promised a space station and all we can seem to do is bicker on a forum lol.


Asgardia is pay2play at this point, perhaps it will be for the wealthy and upperclass. Asgardia is starting to turn into a lie, a lot like Trump. Promise the world to the poor and then con people out of their money.


Anyone hear of the new clown world meme? That is current state of Asgardia.


It is clown world


It is a joke.

Gem 03, 03 / Apr 25, 19 14:32 UTC

Bicker? Nah, just expressing my opinion, since that's about all you can do on this forum.

I'm sure many others including yourself are with me on this one.

Not a penny will pass from me to this joke of an establishment without anything in return. 

And to those who have paid the €100, you were forewarned about buying into this scam by many, including myself.

I wish some officials would shed some light on this. All you are doing is offering services that don't exist and empty promises that you fail to deliver time and time again. How do you plan to rectify this? 

Some of the people on this website have been here since day dot. Do you not owe them at least an explanation as to why you feel the need to introduce such a hideous fee for a piece of paper that is, at current, completely worthless? 


Gem 09, 03 / May 1, 19 15:26 UTC

 Igor doesn't read anything on here, he is too busy living his life, he has others pay attention to this site, and might even pay them to run it for him.

You may on occasion have a few people who think they are actually on some political campaign to become a mayor or what ever, and will pop in, to say that they care, and hear your complaints and are working hard to make a change.

Which is about as consoling as me giving anyone here my personal word, that I am going to personally write a letter and snail mail it to Igor himself, demanding an explanation. 

A few moderators who do not get paid to moderate will on occasion pop in to try and qwell any discontent an mention that there are youtube channels and facebook channels that are more active, but big whoop to that, if that is true, why is this forum even here then.

I stick around to see the insanity of what Asgardia has become, and to see some interesting ideas from a few members of the forum.  There are really good people on this forum an it is sad that they are getting railroaded. Hopefully they are waking up by now.

Gem 09, 03 / May 1, 19 17:57 UTC

Hello Asgardians,  

It seems like the lack of Information has started the rumor mill working over time.  I would like to chime in here with some Information from the Parliament.  I'm the Chairman of the Information & Communication Committee, just in case you didn't already know.  So where to start?  I guess with the Citizenship Fee and Certificate.  At this point this is a very confusing issue because of the way it was done.   

The Citizenship fee is still just that a fee to become a citizen of Asgardia.  Your 100 Euro fee payment & Citizen (Asgardian ID) number make you a citizen.  There is no need for a certificate because you already have proof of citizenship.

The poorly named Citizenship Certificate is an investment and it allows holders to buy stock into Asgardia AG, the business side of the Kingdom of Asgardia.  That 1000 Euro certificate will generate money for the holders plus what ever other shares they buy.  


NOW, with all that being said, things change with little notice when it comes from the Head of Nation.  As of now there is NO way to buy shares of business side of Asgardia even if you paid the 1000 Euros.  And the certificate has nothing to do with citizenship.  But I'm unable to get answers to the How or Why of the matter.  I believe that the Change from Citizen to Resident on this site is also part of this issue.  I believe it is a translation failure because resident is not the same as citizen and we who have paid the 100 euro fee are citizens... so expect changes on this issue in the near future.  

Next up what do you get for 100 Euros?  For now bragging rights to helping build something bigger than ourselves.  This Kingdom is 2 years old,  there is nothing one can realistically expect to get.  Think of it like an investment in a new product idea, if it's a success there will be plenty of rewards.  I would say don't give up hope just yet.  The we now have all of the Ministers in the government appointed.  That just happened.  This is a very slow process, but we are making progress.  If the rumor mill gets too crazy send me a message and I'll pop in and tell you what I can.


Dennis Shoemaker

Asgardia Member of Parliament

Chairman

Information & Communication Committee

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 02:47 UTC

 And Kudos to me because I nailed it.


You may on occasion have a few people who think they are actually on some political campaign to become a mayor or what ever, and will pop in, to say that they care, and hear your complaints and are working hard to make a change.

Which is about as consoling as me giving anyone here my personal word, that I am going to personally write a letter and snail mail it to Igor himself, demanding an explanation. 

From my previous statement,


then

this part here is very telling,


And the certificate has nothing to do with citizenship.  But I'm unable to get answers to the How or Why of the matter.


Chances are this person is on the low level of parliament members, which means who ever he reports too or who ever is supposed to answer him when he asks a question, just doesn't care to answer in a timely manner let alone take him serious .


~It seems like the lack of Information has started the rumor mill working over time.


It isn't a rumor mill, when Asgardia is being lambasted as foolish on a political satire sit com show, and it isn't a rumor mill when the fact is the people at the top are screwing the people at the bottom over, with fees, taxes, penalties, and creating societal classes when the concept was indicating that there would only one class, and that is Asgardians. 


~ Next up what do you get for 100 Euros?  For now bragging rights to helping build something bigger than ourselves.  This Kingdom is 2 years old,  there is nothing one can realistically expect to get.


* This is bullvine scatology at its' finest.  Almost in the year 2020 and whom ever is really running this website or Asgardia can't go to www.vistaprint.com and create some basic Asgardia logos to slap on some stickers and mugs, then create a link to put on here so someone can buy it ? Good grief I literally did half the work for Asgardia by posting the link to vistaprint to make it possible. An for 100 dollars in any currency form, I expect at least a bumper sticker that says, I was stupid enough to give 100 dollars for a bumper sticker. An then slap it on my forehead and walk around like a moron all over town. What can one really expect from a " 2 year old Kingdom ". A lot .  How about a realistic goals plan  laid out for everyone to see that is projected for five years. How about a realistic time line for I.D cards that one doesn't have to travel all over the globe to go get. How about one job ? One job to sweep, and mop the floors in Igors home, and it can pay the standard minimum wage in what ever Country Igor lives in, not speaking of Asgardian minimum wage, cause duh duh, there is none.  


~ Think of it like an investment in a new product idea, if it's a success there will be plenty of rewards.

*  Well another way to think of it , is no one is believing this crap any more, the website is dieing, the forum is being kept alive by maybe 15 people tops, what ever citizenship numbers are being posted are fake, and no one is investing in a concocted Idea that only benefits the one who concocted it.

~ I would say don't give up hope just yet.

* Too late


 ~ 

Dennis Shoemaker

Asgardia Member of Parliament

Chairman

Information & Communication Committee


* corrected title


Dennis Shoemaker

Asgardia Member of Parliament

Chairman

Propaganda spinner & cover upper of Bullvine Scatology

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 02:49 UTC

P. S


If the rumor mill gets too crazy send me a message and I'll pop in and tell you what I can.


*  Why ?


It isn't a rumor mill #1

#2 evidently who ever is monitoring is the one who ran to you like a chicken with their head cut off, to try and quell the complaints and facts. We can just sit an wait for them to go running to you again. no need for anyone of us to send you a message.

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 11:25 UTC

Hello Chairman Dennis Shoemaker of the Information & Communication Committee!


Thank you so much for your reply clarifying the situation. I do not believe Asgardia is a big scam such as GLC3295 now believes, but I do share his concerns about charging us money for not really a lot of promise of even a modest return other than Bragging rights.


I really think if Igor is serious about this project he needs to hire some kind of committee, maybe that's what this government thing is all about, to see the feasibility of having Asgadian Territority in Space, The Moon, and On Earth.


I really do think that it's not reasonable to charge people money when we don't even have, as far as I know, a single Asgardian territory on the planet other than some obscure office somewhere in Vienna. There should be many places, people could donate apartments or living space or land, and they would, if there were more concrete plans on what our goals really are.


Do we want a space station? Are we going to defend the Earth? Wouldn't that necessitate like giant space guns or deflections? There are many contradictions in the original mission of peace and love and everyone is equal and let's build a new society but we don't really know how and give us money now is where we are at lol.


I am still, I think, an Asgardian because of was one of the first, but you people in government better get your act together on some kind of milestones for the public if you want even 10% of us to give you 100 EURO by the end of the year.


Again, thank you for replying Dennis, sorry I am very passionate about this topic and wish Asgardia to Succeed.


Haeley 'CryoKeen' Merrill Schroeppel


PS Is there still an official discord server? Can I get a link? The old links seem to be expired. Thank you

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 14:43 UTC

It is a scam, when now the certificate isn't a " Certificate for Citizenship " but a " Certificate to buy stock, in Asgardia " as one would buy stock in a Company that provides goods and services. An then for someone who claims to be in a position of authority explains that from what he knows, there is no way currently to buy stock in Asgardia.


FYI, no one on the face of the planet, can buy stock on a kingdom or nation, you can't go to a broker, lender, or any other company on the face of the planet, and say, Hi I would like to pay 1000 dollars, euros, beans, and purchase stock on the U.S.A, Ireland, China, Saudia Arabia, Pakistan. Etc.


You buy stocks in COMPANIES.


AKA


It is a scam.


When you buy something and get nothing in return for your hard earned money, you are being scammed.


Now what Dennis is suggesting, is " INVESTING " . But the problem is, the concept of the money being waged against people, is not an investment. No one in their right mind, looks at a business plan, that says, well, in 100 years we HOPE, that our business plan will bear fruit, and actually work to better humanity. An in return for your money,  you get bragging rights to say you were there at the beginning.

Think I am full of it ?


You try it, you come up with a nice idea, to better humanity, and go find an actual investor, with real money. An pitch your idea, tell the investor exactly what Denis said, and then see how fast you get laughed out of the room or thrown out by security. 

The CONCEPT of Asgardia is not a scam, it is a very nice IDEA. That is all it is.

The implementation of becoming a " Kingdom " and soliciting money is the scam. Igor found a lot of loop holes to create his own internet kingdom. An kudos for him. That is all it is.  Renting a hotel ballroom, and throwing a fundraiser, and giving yourself accolades that you created, at an event that one created, doesn't mean jack.


IF Asgardia really wanted to be taken seriously, it would take solid recognition by real world leaders and real nations. An they would have to drop the scheming money grabbing that they try to pass off as investing, or taxation.

Nations do not tax people, when there is no work force to tax. It just doesn't happen, never has, never will. The only other term for that is slavery. Jobs come first, then taxes , not the other way around.


Just more examples of either a scam, or stupidity, pick which ever suits your tastes.

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 17:37 UTC

I guess I am a stupid hopeful, if that's what you want to call it. I do not generally like to be called stupid, I think there could be a third party between "its a scam, or your a fucking moron" that is "i will just wait and see how it goes".


I assume your anger is that people are giving any money to this project? It is honorable of you to want to protect them, and there are a number of Red Flags, but I'd say it's not a very good scam, the return on investment just doesn't seem very high for what money he put into this project.


Another thing i strongly believed in was indeed if not a scam than overly ambitious. Perhaps you have heard of Mars One?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_One


"Mars One was a small private Dutch organization that received money from investors by claiming it would use it to land the first humans on Mars and leave them there to establish a permanent human colony.[2][3][4] From its announcement in 2012 to its bankruptcy in early 2019, it is estimated to have received tens of millions of dollars.[5] The organization was not an aerospace company and did not manufacture hardware."


I wanted to believe in it pretty badly, maybe that is my fault with Asgardia, Asgardia i see a LOT of public collaboration tho  around a central idea, and if the only good thing to come out of this is a bunch of people really seriously thinking about making a new peaceful nation and combining ideas, hey that's great!


It is very unfortunate that you are locked onto this "scam" angle, yeah its not right to give over your money for basically nothing in return, but maybe you are right and I am just being naive.. but do you think that all these "government people" are in on the "scam" do they know they are part of the "scam" as you call it? Does only Igor and a few ppl he know involved in the "scam"?

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 17:43 UTC

I do want to thank you again GLC3295 for pointing out many flaws in Asgardia Premise. I am wondering if there is any way to take legal action against Asgardia which I have no experience with and am very poor so idk what I could do. 


I do not know how else to send the message to the higher ups that taxing people for nothing is wrong other than to pursue legal avenues?


Since it's based in Vienna maybe I could email some lawyers there and ask what they think?


So far I would say Asgardia is 30% Scam/Idiocracy 30% Mismanagement/LackOfTransparancy 35% WishfulCreatives Who Want A Better World

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 19:16 UTC

Just to clarify Cryo, I was in no way shape or form calling you " Stupid ".  My using of the wordage was aimed really at the leadership of Asgarida and how it is being run. An the other adjectives as well, from scam to what ever, so it was more a choice of which suits best for what I was trying to describe. Nor was I suggesting and never intended to suggest that those who are giving money to Asgardia are stupid or morons, and the way I worded it would indeed suggest that I did. I should of stuck to the wording that people are being used and left it at that .


I am familiar with Mars One as well, and watched it closely,  overly ambitious for that program as well as Asgardia, is indeed an option for a label. Foolish is perhaps another as well.  To me it is a scam because they are offering a false hope, while taking peoples money and giving nothing in return. To me that is a scam. While legally speaking it may not constitute a scam .


As an American, I am far beyond skeptical of my government, and of the two party system that runs it. It was founded in good faith to serve the people, the frame work is still in tact yet both parties try very hard to dismantle what they can, how they can to their advantage. So hence my distrust of any and all governments. There are a few good people in any government. But to me, over all, government officials become only interested in how much money goes into their pocket, and what angle they can use to keep themselves in power. Which the irony being they wouldn't be in any power if the people did not elect them to be in the position in the first place.


As for any legal options, I do not think there is technically speaking any that can be taken on any level. As you can see; it takes forever for anyone in a government position from Asgardia to respond, and when they do, it is to say nothing more than, I hear you, I am on top of it, vote for me, it is just a rumor, and poof they are gone and no one hears back from them, for months, if ever.


In the end I see Asgardia as going the way of Mars One. At the moment I see it as a way for rich people to look at this as a hobby, and a way to make some extra money to use on the side of what ever else they are doing with their lives.


Again I apologize if you took anything I said as an insult towards you; it was not intended to be.



Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 19:27 UTC

UGh I lost everything I typed and have to start over. 


I wanted to apologize if you thought anything I said was directed at you Cryo, it was not in any way shape or form. I do believe that people are being financially taken advantage of, I do not believe that these people who are giving money are stupid or morons. I believe they may be acting in a foolish manner.

The labels I am using, it just that. Which ever is the best fit for what would be the best negative light to put Asgardian in, can be any I suppose.


Is what is going on technically a scam ? Maybe not.  To me it is a scam, or a least really shady, to ask and takes people money, under any reason, and give them nothing in return but false hope and empty promises. An to then just shrug ones shoulders and go, well we are only 2 years old what do you want.


As to any legal venue to take, I doubt there is any. Asgaridan higher ups are a closed network. They know how to get ahold of each other, no one else does. An even if " regular people " could contact them, what are the chances that they would read a complaint, let alone acknowledge it was read.  It is a bleak outlook I know.  I am familiar with Mars One, I was excited about it when it first started. But it too died out really fast. People that invested time and money, trying to make the cut to become part of a new fledgling colony lost out. 

I think Asgardia in the end will suffer the same fate.  I think people are foolish for giving any amount of money to Asgardia, I think who ever Igor is hiring to do the Public Relations Campaign and fundraising, are adapt at knowing how to stroke people to get them to cough up money. Igor doesn't look menacing, he looks like a sweet old man. Doesn't mean he isn't, doesn't mean he is. But he has created a way to manipulate people into believing into something that just can't take any real steps, and is setting itself up to take in money left and right and give nothing in return. 


So red flags are waving all over the place for me.


It takes forever for anyone from Asgardia to speak in here, then when they do, they just disappear or ignore everyones comments afterwards. I think those running the show are on a closed network, just meaning they use other means to communicate with each other so outsiders can not pester them with complaints. If they actually cared, there would be a section some where on here, where they are specifically answering complaints and addressing concerns.

Thing is, they have no incentive to, so why should they bother.


Again apologies if you thought I was personally attacking you or anyone giving money, It may of came off like that, and I could of worded things differently. I am more frustrated with people getting used and taken advantage of than anything.

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 19:28 UTC

well turns out i double posted. i thought my original post was lost, and composed another one, so that is why there are two.  * burps to me *

Gem 10, 03 / May 2, 19 21:30 UTC

Thank you so much for explaining it, all of it to me, I can see that you may have been very much into Asgardia as I was but began to see the cloud beyond the silver lining perhaps way earlier than I did. It's okay they make it hard to delete posts here.


I hope something good continues to come out of Asgardia, weather that inspires another Peaceful nation, or Asgardia somehow becomes realized or whatever else I think it was a very inspirational idea and hopefully we can do something with this idea.