Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 22:13 UTC

Re: No need for military.  

We really would need a military. You are looking at a goal that others can only DREAM of. That man has yet to grasp. There are many who would wish to see the fruition of these plans go to waste. And others who wish to exploit it. We need two things. A defense team that will be ready and willing to defend our nation. And an offense one should the need arise. Killing is never wanted but sadly it is a necessary thing, regardless of on earth or not. We need to be ready at any moments notice for anything that could possibly happen. I don't want to put the safety of my life and hundreds of thousands of others into some peace and flowers nonsense. Not because I don't want to, but because at this point and time, and for the far foreseeable future, it is not only necessary, but required. It is a necessary evil that we really should invest in. And the better we invest and the better we protect, the less likely things are to turn sour because of outside attacks.

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 22:36 UTC

¨Hoping life treat you well because you have been a good person it's like hoping a tiger don't attack you because you are a vegetarian¨. Bruce Lee

Unfortunately we need millitary.

  Last edited by:  jonkar Chablani (Asgardian)  on Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 22:37 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Dec 28, 16 / Cap 27, 00 13:05 UTC

I don't think Asgardia need amy unless we have to face the enemy from outer space. Since our purpose is to defend the earth from the threat of disasters like astroid impact, which is beneficial to all human beings, I do not think some countries on earth will attack us. If we have army, the people on earth will regard us as potential threat, for we have to absolute superiority in space. In this case they will try their best to control us, even if that will deprive their own benefit. The result is great loss on both side.

Nevertheless, we still need strategy to avoid being attacked.

Because we have to rely on the resources, like water and air, that is not available in space, the nations on space will try to take control of us by limiting those resources. This is our biggest impediment to be a truly independent country.

To avoid that, first, I believe we should perfect our space technology. Improving our own life-supporting system so we can rely on the resources on earth less. This will also decline our disadvantage.

Besides, we should use our advantage---we can use the infinity resources in the space---to manufacture products that is unable to be produced on earth. This will balance our disadvantage, and enable us to negotiate with other countries equally. The will agree our requirement if they feel that it is still beneficial to cooperate with us.

Third, political strategy is also necessary. We should have our judgement on the international situation to balance the forces that tries to control us. Each side will realize that it will be a big loss to them if one side control us solely, so they will not allow that happen. the result is that we have can remain independent.

  Last edited by:  Zhou Boxuan (Asgardian)  on Dec 28, 16 / Cap 27, 00 13:28 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Dec 28, 16 / Cap 27, 00 22:42 UTC

There is a difference between a military and a defense force. A military is a standing army that is capable and available to go to war against another military force and the willingness to invade another country. A defense force is not like a military. Structurally, it may appear the same and seem to have the same purpose, but they are not alike. A defense force is a kind of like a militia, or, like here in the US, a national guard. The purpose the National Guard in the US is not to send them to foreign soil, but instead to be a trained force ready to defend the country and respective from foreign invaders while primarily aiding in humanitarian relief efforts, search rescue and other roles in disaster-struck areas. Granted, an Asgardian Defense Force would take on slightly different roles, but they would still be there to help Asgardia.

Dec 29, 16 / Cap 28, 00 12:34 UTC

Hello, having an armed force does not necessarily mean aggressive, it all depends on who the command, and weapon does not necessarily mean mortal, there are already reduced lethal weapons that might suit the security and defense forces.

Jan 1, 17 / Aqu 01, 01 15:58 UTC

Suposing we are a big space nation, we can presume that even then most of asgardians would still live on earth, and not having a soberaign territory, they would live in other countries, so we have to consider two different scenarios. First, the space stations/ habitats; i don't know what you imagine but firearms does not work the same way in space and even if we develop some new ones, firing them inside of the ship is not a good idea at all. Even a minor damage to some life support sistem would cause a dissaster, so an army-like force should only rely on some inhabilitating weaponry and/or some weaponry embedded on the ships for deffending against exterior threats. On the other side we have the "earthlings" (asgardians still on planet earth) living in other Countries. For them there is not much to say, they must follow the laws of the countrie they live in, and my personal oppinion is that Asgardia should not interfere in earths relations/wars thus in doing that it could generate tensions that endanger our fragile space stations and citicens living on earth as the will always be minorities wherever the reside on, and as such, they could be subject to discrimination and hate. pd: unless we have some territory on earth or a lot of treatys, any armed force we have will be invading foreign territory (not good for public relations (? ).

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 00:35 UTC

No there's one senario - inside our borders. Anything else is outside of our control, and further not our responsibiltiy. As you rightly point out, we should not interfere with their affairs... We are unlikely to have any borders for some time. Firearms work precisely as they do down here up in space - and this is precisely why they are a bad idea.

It's highly unlikely that any existing nation will want to donate territory. Building our own island(s) is technically feasible, but reasonably expensive.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 02:06 UTC

HI, It may also be wise for people to check out their residential nations laws regarding dual citizenship and membership of a foreign nations military/defence forces prior to Asgardia's formal entry in to the family of the Earths nations. My opinion is, security forces will be required, the form that it takes should evolve as requirements dictate, for example, a good cyber security team is pretty much required already. Projectile weapons in space, always a bad idea. Making a bullet proof (micro-meteor proof) hull isn't that difficult, making be so from both sides is a little more challenging. Derek.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 03:22 UTC

Not particularly, For the outer hull, just increase the thickness. Five meters of NiFe harvested from asteroids, skinned by six inches of titanium by my reckoning will prevail against most things and provide semi-decent radiation shielding. For the inner pressure hull, you have that double skinned and cavity filled to pressurised with an expanding composite metal foam - any holes in that internally should sprout foam to fill the hole, where it sets and seals. Additionally you have seven inches of aluminium/steel composite metal foam ballistic sheilding in sections tesselated across the internal hull.

This ofc doesn't make firearms a good idea.

Yes, about all we'd need about now a cyber security. And forseeably this is all we should really require until we actually have something physical to be defending. Our first Earth-based facilities would require what would be better described as "security guards" than "defence forces".

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 06:27 UTC

I agree that there is no need for a military (in the conventional sense) for the Asgardian habitat / station / ship / whatever. Without exception, the various militaries on Earth consumes massive amounts of money and resources and, at the end of the day, is only designed to produce two things: death and destruction.

However, Asgardia should have the ability to defend itself. I can think of a few Earth based nations that would be potentially tempted to jump on that train after all the hard work has been done, particularly if future Asgardian industries (eg. asteroid mining, power generation, technology development, etc) prove to be particularly lucrative. There is no reason though that an Asgardian Defence Force should be the conventional humans with guns.

I would imagine that being a scientifically advanced society, a lot, if not all, of the activities outside of the habitat would be undertaken by robots (autonomous and/or remotely operated). These could be designed and programmed with the secondary purpose of defence that can be activated should a threat present itself. However, this may be getting into a grey area with a possible international ban on Lethal Autonomous Weapons Systems (LAWS) on the horizon.

Any thoughts?

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 09:26 UTC

FYI please keep your selves up to date with the concept of Asgardia: The third goal is to create a demilitarized and free scientific base of knowledge in space. This will provide free access to all, especially those from developing countries who do not have space access now. And such access should be free and direct.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 10:10 UTC

Demilitarized - yes. Defenceless - no. To me, there is a difference.

For about the last 15,000 years, humans as a species have proven themselves to be innately greedy and easily capable of abandoning morals and reason in order to get something more shiny, more valuable, more useful, more productive, more powerful, more desirable, etc. If Asgardia is successful as a space nation, it could very easily become a victim of its own success and become a target for those who want that success for themselves. To be blunt, to think any other way is naive.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

  Updated  on Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 10:50 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 11:16 UTC

unfortunately theres no peace without an army... so we need the strongest army there is

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 23:14 UTC

Fighting for peace is kind of like fucking for virginity.

And yes, demiliterised is not defenceless.

Humans are greedy, and lacking morals esp. when in the pursuit of - you know what else they are? Predictable. To be quite blunt, to imagine we would just sit and wait for it to be taken from us is at best naive.

Jan 2, 17 / Aqu 02, 01 23:48 UTC

A military is crucial for any nation. And when you talk about militarization of the solar system is already under way. The U.S., China and some European nations have missiles that can shoot down satellites which could threaten Asgardia, so some way to counter these systems is needed. Maybe a military in the sense of troops, companies and battalions is no applicable at the moment, but a dedicated branch of the government tasked with maintaining national Sovereignty is crucial.