Mar 3, 17 / Ari 06, 01 18:30 UTC
How will Asgardian raise money? ¶
How will Asgardia raise money?
Mar 3, 17 / Ari 06, 01 18:41 UTC
I am fairly certain we are WAY too early for this.
Initially, it is my understanding that Igor is footing the bills at the moment.
Eventually, I hope they issue bonds to help pay for things. This is a form of investment in Asgardia, which provides not only money but also recognition as a true project and incentive for success.
Beyond that, Asgardia would need to get involved in the world economy by actually producing something and selling it. That is the long-term question that no one should or can answer at the moment.
Apr 12, 17 / Tau 18, 01 05:13 UTC
This issue is, perhaps, the most prominent issue Asgardia faces. Financing is the principal struggle of all ambitious start-ups. In order to maintain Asgardia, little alone expand it and bring its extraordinary goals closer to reality, Asgardia has to ensure a source of long-term funding.
Theoretically, Asgardia has two fundamental methods of financing, a national-based method, and an organizational-based method. In either case, there would be an economic necessity of establishing quid pro quo. A national based method would source funding as a traditional functional government might, e.g., any form of taxation. If Asgardia follows a traditional national-oriented method, there would be reasonable expectation for some form of compensation. Taxes build infrastructure or promote concepts of national interest. Without a constitution, nor any physical benefit, I don’t see taxation being a viable option for sustainable financing, at least not anytime soon.
A financing method that is organizational based might be a better fit to accomplish Asgardia’s short-term goals, in reality. This method gives Asgardia a great deal of flexibility, but requires further definition of the organization. What is Asgardia, on paper? How is the organization structured and where is it legally located? Are these details subject to change? There are plenty of factors to iron out, but this approach has the most potential. Many long-lasting organizations raise money from donations in the form of endowments. However, continuing our discussion on quid pro quo exchanges, the donors typically give to 501(c)(3)’s (charity, which Asgardia is not) and receive imediate deductions on income tax, which makes the transaction beneficial. This is not to say people won’t give without a deduction, the premises of Asgardia is unique, it just makes endowment funding more difficult by shrinking the pool of potential donors. Other options could be the issuance of debt, bonds, or even the incorporation of Asgardia as a privately held corporation (issuing stock when funds are needed). Which financing options should be used depend on how and where the organization is organized.
Although it is true a lot needs to be worked out, I believe the reality of our financial options should help shape the organization. Facilitating this crucial discussion can only move Asgardia closer to its ambitious goals.
Apr 12, 17 / Tau 18, 01 11:55 UTC
Without a Constitution, there is no nation. The Constitution may place limits on what economic activities Asgardia can be involved in, so any planning at this stage is purely academic. I agree that the economy will be very important, but none of us should be so myopic as to believe that it is the 'most important' factor.
At present, Asgardia is taking the company route and selling merchandise, because that is the only option available. Once the Constitution is in place and a legal and policy framework is in place we can begin to build the economy, factoring in all those who are capitalistic, socialistic, and those who are anarchistic (as we seem to have attracted all three groups in large numbers).
Apr 15, 17 / Tau 21, 01 11:00 UTC
Thanks very much #Gary, you have summoned matter in a very compact and clear manner. Raising money or generating funds for Asgardia, I assume must be a major question mark for founders as well. Once pronounce Asgardia as a nation, it is normal to consider tools of financing at state level which is obviously taxation of the citizen and businesses. Asgardia is still a project trying to promote itself and establish its legal and social foundations so forget about everything at state level as you suggest at the moment. But we must constantly consider and seek most applicable system for Asgardia for future application.
Organization based method can be evaluated for time being, my assumption is, that is what actually happening at the moment by Mr. Ashurbeyli's businesses, but eventually there must be an Asgardia entity to generate funds and manage the fiscal responsibilities of a state.
Recently there has been quite a lot of reference to Asgardia NGO. This might be the solution for time being, as non-profit organizations NGOs can rely on variety of sources and can manage annual budgets in access of billions. There the key is fund raising efforts for success and existence. Funds can be membership dues ( we have already 175+k members and rising ), sales of goods and services ( merchandising, satellite revenues, IT services, media revenues, etc. ) or simple donations. Globally this is already a highly applied tool and deductable on all taxation systems. Even, through this we can be entitled to UN funds as well after all we are out there to help to protect the space, earth and humanity.
Never the less, we will see what founders have in mind when Chapter II - Space Citizenship Asgardia and Chapter III - Resources clauses of the constitution opened up for us.
May 7, 17 / Gem 15, 01 08:15 UTC
There are a number of options available, particularly in the short-term ... going the organizational route.
1. Leadership can begin sourcing private investment funding.
2. Prepare for an Initial Public Offering (IPO), which seems to already be in the works through the joint-stock company, "Asgardia."
3. Utilize Kickstarter, or another crowdsourcing platform to fund small, targeted initiatives.
In the longer term, I believe leadership should begin looking at actually MAKING investments, particularly in companies that may hold the technological basis for many of our objectives and long-term goals.
1. SpaceX is a private company at present, but it is valued at $12 Billion U.S. Dollars.(1) It may, or may not go public sometime around 2022.(2) If Asgardia were to purchase a controlling share in that stock ...
I am sure you can see where I am headed with this line of reasoning. This can be applied to other tech companies as well.
2. An alternative would be for Asgardia to make plans to invest in its citizens' science and/or tech start-ups with the caveat that all profits from these start-ups (assuming they are successful) are re-invested into tech and science enterprises either owned wholly or in part by the Asgardia government.
(1) How Much Is SpaceX Stock Worth? - Alex McGuire - https://moneymorning.com/2017/03/06/how-much-is-spacex-stock-worth/
(2) SpaceX Stock - Money Morning - https://moneymorning.com/tag/spacex-stock/
Dec 20, 17 / Cap 18, 01 19:02 UTC
I agree there are many ways to gather money for such initiatives. You forget one thing: ICO. (Initial Coin Offering) And with SOLAR in the making... hmm, it's pretty good choice to consider.
Dec 22, 17 / Cap 20, 01 02:58 UTC
I would strongly disagree with the sentiment that it is too early for this discussion (I know that statement was made before the constitution was "approved" though I do see that as any different since a quick glance around these forums - and even a critical reading of that constituion - would indicate that the current version will not be the final version). Ultimately, though, this is a question that needs to be answered very early, as all other decisions will rest on this issue. While early funding might be covered, we still can't design a space station without an idea of the budget, and you can't establish any sort of reliable budget without knowing where the money will come from. Looking at the question of finances after the station has been built, that needs to be figured out too, so that that source can be included in the o a rail design of the station, the government, and the society. Even the question of funding to build the station really needs to be resolved in order to build that in to the structure of the station and society. If there are investors they will want to know what they are getting, and they will want to know the tax and legal ramifications of investing in this nation.
As for an IPO, I fail to see the value in that, from an investor stand point. Who would invest in this and why? This isn't a business which is developing a product or service to make money for its investors. ICO has some value, but until people begin to accept it as a form of payment, it has little value. Moreover, the nature of cryptocurrency makes it so that a central entity doesn't really have an advantage in producing new currency, so Asgardia will likely not make a significant sum on this, at least not compared to the future costs it will need to maintain.
On the other hand, one thing of value that Asgardia does plan to have someday is property. Those who will live in Asgardia will need a space to live, businesses will need a place to be as well. Even if homes are the cost of an average home in a first world nation, that could still provide a significant sum of money. Not everyone will be in a financial place to buy a home and even fewer will be able to buy it outright, so international friendly banks will need to be negotiated with to provide mortgage options, and for those who want to rent, real estate investment groups who want to hold rental properties will need to be invited to purchase space on the station to rent out.
As far as future commerce, I imagine tourism will be a big part of the economy, and that means hotels (another potential investor looking for space on the station). The station would also probably end up serving as a port for space exploration missions, mining missions, and so forth. This also means docking space and storage space will be in demand.
It should also be pointed out that most if not all practical designs for a station will leave only a small percentage of homes and such next to a window, so homes with a view would be a luxury. Richer individuals building a vacation home, much like they might do in Aspen, or other vacation places, would likely be willing to pay quite a premium for one of these homes. Hotels would probably pay a premium to have some rooms with a space view as well.
All of this, of course, requires certain economic conditions. A cashless society, or a society with a heavy tax burden on businesses, might stand in the way of any of these being possible. Tbat, however, is precisely why this conversation needs to happen sooner than later. I did some quick rough math in my head, and I would estimate that a station built for 400k people, plus 100k in tourists, would probably have a budget of around 500 billion USD for construction from the above sources.
Jan 22, 18 / Aqu 22, 02 02:36 UTC
Suppose, for example, that we need to build a permanent settlement of 500,000 people in orbit. Let's assume that for each person at the station requires 10m2 for living and also, for each person there will be 10m2 of technical, administrative premises and open areas of common use. In total, we need to build 10,000,000 m2 in orbit.
How many will weigh 1 m2 of the station? If you make a station from rolling steel for example, and assume that for 1m2 you need at least 1m2 ceiling, 1m2 floor and 2m2 for two walls (when taking into account the ring structure), we need 4 sheets of 1m2 of rolled steel per 1m2 station. 10,000,000 m2 * 4 = 40,000,000 m2 of rolled steel. 1m2 rolling steel weighs from 8 kg per 1mm thickness of rolled steel sheet (this is a very thin sheet and it does not fit), we need a sturdy construction that will withstand overloading with artificial gravity ... even suppose that we will make a station of 1mm steel sheet, we only need 40,000,000 m2 of steel on the walls alone * 8 kg the weight of one m2 of steel sheet = 320,000,000 kg of steel (320,000 tonnes of steel) into orbit, without taking into account the weight of the equipment and the frame of the station. And this is a very thin steel sheet 1mm thick. Let's assume that the total weight of the station, taking into account the aforesaid, will be in the region of 500,000 tons, taking into account the plating, skeleton, equipment. At the moment, the cheapest Proton rockets put cargo into orbit at a price of $ 2800 for 1kg of weight. or $ 2 800 000 for 1 ton put into orbit. Multiply $ 2 800 000 by 500 000 tons in and get the cost of the station, excluding the cost of assembling the station and the cost of the equipment of the station. And this cost is equivalent to 1 trillion 400 billion US dollars
The total amount of the project will be much higher. it can be about 3-4 trillion US dollars. Therefore, this project is not very realistic yet. First we will need to invent new materials, stronger than steel with a weight like carbon fiber, which would not be more expensive than steel and would protect us from radiation and micrometeorites. Then we will need to invent a means of putting cargo into orbit, which would be 10 times cheaper than existing ones. Then we will need to test in orbit different options for creating artificial gravity, since all that is at the moment is a fantasy and naked theories never used in practice. And no one knows how this or that method of creating artificial gravity affects living organisms. There is only theory and calculations. And only then we can begin construction of such a grandiose structure in orbit. Until then, we will put into orbit less grandiose buildings, robotic protective platforms and not large residential and tourist modules not more than 500-1000 people.
Jan 23, 18 / Aqu 23, 02 04:02 UTC
I agree with Sebastian i have been following the crypto market for a bit and there seems to be lots of funds flowing around the blockchain industry and it seems to be the way of the future. An ICO is the way to go. You already have what you could call a road map and im sure a whitepaper could be drawn up also. I like a coin name such as ASGARD short and sweet and catchy solar is being used. Once coins are on the exchanges and being traded there will also be more awareness of Asgardia and a active group of people.
Jan 25, 18 / Aqu 25, 02 22:34 UTC
Hi to all ! For me the most important thing for Asgardia is money. For the moment our interests should be in sending satellites to space. When each Asgardian donates $ 5,-- monthly we could launch Asgardia 2 very soon. and the world will talk about our kingdom I can't understand why Asgardians are so lazy in donating. I'm not rich but i donate every month and that goes for me without saying. I hope they will change their opinion.
Mar 29, 18 / Tau 04, 02 23:26 UTC
I am happy to read that Master Stephen alluded Space Tourism and its accomodation like hotel rooms by the window or anything. You have a very imaginative mind and business mind as well
Aug 28, 18 / Lib 16, 02 13:30 UTC
Hello Gentlemen, I've been thinking and researching in a way on how we could raise funds for both Asgardia and for the few to go spinning the wheel of our economy. For that I thought of something that was reverberated among people again. Using a mix of social and economic design. So to speak we would use the good old barter, but not in its entirety.
For example, Asgardians who have properties on their behalf, such as small plots, or even a small garden on the balcony of their apartment could create social gardens, thus creating a network of trust among Asgardians. And also exchange small services among themselves. In an example: Mrs. Musk needs someone to fix the plumbing in her kitchen and met Mr. Allan in an Asgardian social garden.
This could quickly evolve to create jobs among people who trust those they already know from their own community, since what is being discussed today among new entrepreneurs is the lack of trust in hiring employees. It is a simple idea, but with the help, good faith and honesty of our community this can happen in an incredible way and still generate funds for our dear Asgardia.