Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 19:27 UTC

Hello Everyone. Are you serious?  

Hello there!

I just wanted to say "hi" to everyone since this is the appropriate place for it. :-)

I also wanted to point out the lack of seriousness about this "place" real quick...

I presented serious challenging questions to multiple members and mods in multiple forum threads, and I received exactly zero satisfactory answers to what I pointed out as obvious contradictions. To be honest, I'm not even convinced yet that most of you are even sane.

It is my opinion that there is an extraordinary paradox in challenging UN Treaties while simultaneously pleading that you become a member. That line of thought is beyond reason, and I think you would be much better off staying with dialogue rather than forcing your "Space Nation" idea on the rest of the World at this time.

Just food for thought.



Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 19:41 UTC

I'm just trying to help.

"why don't you give up your citizenship and leave?" - because you need help. I thought you would be grateful. No? Also, it doesn't make sense for you to kick me out because you don't like me or maybe that I don't like you. That would defeat everything you say your project is about - so that confuses me a little (a lot actually)...

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 19:58 UTC

How can you be so obtuse while pretending to be so accepting? Is this just hyperbole?

"The other is attacks on Our Nation which some of us have been a part of for a year and worked VERY hard putting things in place."

Attack on your Nation... *eyes rolling* - I have absolutely no further comment on that statement.

A year? An entire year? Wow! That's like 3 lifetimes, right? A year!!! Wow! ...   Again, *eyes rolling* - It only took me a few hours to figure out that this was a scam. Some are quicker than others I suppose. That's nature.

  Updated  on Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:02 UTC, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: please do not insult my intelligence

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:35 UTC

A scam. You are not a Sovereign Nation, yet this (link below) says otherwise. I guess you could call it fraud if you want. I chose the word scam. No big deal.

https://asgardia.space/en/page/chronicles/Asgardia-1-Enters-Space-Establishing-the-Space-Nation-Sovereign-Territory

Asgardia-1 Enters Space, Establishing the Space Nation’s Sovereign Territory

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:40 UTC

I think you're both out of line, but also not so bad. I just arrived and I am sure I will be dealing with non-seriousness myself, it is usually the case. So, for one I thank you Patrick for the warning, yet I will proceed.

To respond to a few things:
"It is my opinion that there is an extraordinary paradox in challenging UN Treaties while simultaneously pleading that you become a member. That line of thought is beyond reason, and I think you would be much better off staying with dialogue rather than forcing your "Space Nation" idea on the rest of the World at this time."
To the first part, I must disagree(though I do not know the exact UN Treaties issues). I admit, I'm not entirely interested in the idea of being a part of the U.N., however anything should be challenge-able, even if you are trying to become members of the organization you are challenging. I would hope such an organization would see this as... a good thing, to challenge yet want to work alongside. It is easy to challenge and become opposing and have nothing to do with the other.
In regards to so-called forcing this "Space Nation" idea on "the World"... I must admit, a majority of my ideas involve leaving the Earth and its systems alone as much as possible, near isolationist levels on our part. However, even the idea of me wanting to jettison off, far away to avoid interfering with Earth's systems, some may consider "that" to be interfering. Is joining the U.N. the act of interfering on "the World" you speak of? I don't fully know the benefits of being a part of the U.N. is, but I assume if they "give" anything at all, it can be seen as "taking" from the rest. I personally think as little governmental and corporate assistance is the way to go, simply because getting assistance in this world seems to have too many strings attached that can ruin any project. I simply am going to try to explain the alternatives, we'll see if it's agreeable(hint: lots of engineering, invention, simulation, self-sufficiency, etc). I hope you can contribute to such a discussion.

"If this is how you really feel,  then why don't you give up your citizenship and leave?"
This doesn't seem like a good thing to "say". It is interesting, because my idea of an isolationist space station away-from-Earth is very "opt-in" and very easy to "opt-out"(free trip back home, very difficult to get back in perhaps), therefore the entire concept of "if you don't like it, you may leave whenever". However, never would I likely take the stance of "if you don't like it, you SHOULD leave". I understand there is more conversation that I haven't seen, and perhaps Patrick is being too much elsewhere, but his primary post here seems okay, not deserving of this statement.

"Our Nation"
The capitalization is slightly concerning, and it gives me a similar feeling to when I hear religious terms. I just wanted to state that I feel any over-abundance of nationalistic pride and such is just, I dunno, worrisome. I barely even agree with drawing lines in the ground and having a geographic zealotism towards it. This is probably just a pet-peeve, and maybe you do not represent how most Asgardians represent their nation, but alas.

Patrick's eye rolling and sarcasm and such..
This is just silly, I'm afraid that at first I felt you were fine in your statements, but this seems to "undo" some of that. Perhaps I should not judge since you seem to be on your way out, and I myself surely will waver in my character and show some part of me that feels to "undo" any meaningful statements before and after. I suppose, I don't want to judge you based on you breaking the semi-professionalism you had before, but I can't help but do so and I'm sure others may feel the same.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:46 UTC

@Nohbdy Ahtall - You have a lot of opinion there, don't you? How thoughtful. Thank you. :-)

Just because you mentioned it, *eyes rolling* is meant to be playful, but perhaps you're right in that I am making a serious statement and should therefor refrain from playfulness. Thank you again. You're awesome.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:53 UTC

"those of us who are pretty intelligent"

Who's that?

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:54 UTC

Scam Discussion
I have often worried about sending out media of any form, for my own ideas. Even my game programming club, I love keeping it informal due to the kind of backlash that you mention here, which seems primarily to be "word-choice of an article headline". I definitely blame language/English yet again here, it is beyond easy to misinterpret almost everything. I try not to let my fear of this constant misinterpretation stop me from putting ideas into textual/verbal form, but it does. It's a toughy, because I see Asgardia has a plan to work on language, and in the meantime they need language to get to that point. I don't see this as anything but a mistake, though I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if it was placed on purpose - writers who are trained in our education system seem to be trained to make flashy headlines and push the limit of truth, though I see this as "it didn't mean to put it that way". Also, "establishing" perhaps could be used as "in-the-process-of", but I'm not sure. The claim to say this is a scam/fraud/etc seems to mostly be an emotional response, s'alright though I think this discussion can get on-track and to something even more useful.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:55 UTC

No. You are not a Nation is progress. You are a social website with a wiki, a FaceBook, and a data satellite. No more, no less.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 20:58 UTC

"The claim to say this is a scam/fraud/etc seems to mostly be an emotional response"

Of course there is emotion involved. We are human. :-) Without emotion, scams would be ever so more difficult to perpetrate.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 21:08 UTC

You perceive playfullness to be bullying. That's too bad. I weep for the children sometimes...

P.S. If there is more than just a website, wiki, FaceBook, and satellite then I would beg for you to point me to those resources. So far I haven't found them. Thank you.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 21:22 UTC

Ah, this is very interesting. Thank you too Patrick! I am not often thanked haha. I am trying to balance myself with having no fear of pointing out the flaws, but also wording myself respectfully, but also not letting politeness interfere with meaning, and... yes, I am very over-analytical hah. Alas, this whole discussion, flaws or not, is insightful in some ways. It is both useful to hear the opinions of someone who is "against" something, and then hear the responses of someone who is very much "for" something. If you sift out the emotional stuff, it's a decent perspective and chunk of information I can piece together as I gain more info all-around.

For example, first I'd like to say I've always loved micro-nations, but never involved myself in one since there hasn't been one I agree with enough. I have only ever assumed I would have to start it myself, but I am glad to see there is "something" out there that is nearly the same path.
Which, Ann(also thank you), you are putting something into perspective for me possibly. I am noticing a heavy reliance on the governmental and administration perspective here. Perhaps.. that is a good thing, because it is the part I find most problematic and lacking in my own ideas. Ann, I'm sure I can find it myself, but I surely will be heavily reliant on the "technology" side of things, and I actually think it needs to come "first". So, if you know of any projects/groups that seem to fit with what I'm talking about here, let me know!

I do believe we all, as individuals, can invent "software" solutions for many things ahead of time, and some which allow physical construction to be far easier. I'm not sure if this is mentioned anywhere, but even "one" space station whose primary purpose is to construct spacecraft "in space" is going to save large amounts of resources. The types of craft that can be built that are only meant to be space-bound(no-atmospheres to mess with) are extremely useful, and would be a huge boost. To me, perfecting the atmosphere-based craft should be held off just like certain politics. You get one good escape-earth-and-return craft, you build one good space-stable construction foundation, and you begin designing to have one, really robust construction station. When mining and resource extraction is arrived at(and anything for self-sufficiency, especially to void the need of ever spending money to get something) then politics will probably have their say, and it can be focused on. Also, programming can be heavily-trained while "in" space, and having plenty of robotics, drones, and materials to experiment with(or just simulations) via automation and autonomy(such as one person controlling 10 mining drones, initially it will be 10 people for one drone, someday it can be one person controlling a vast swarm - reduce human-job-requirements and labor).

Then again, psh, what am I saying. Research all the things at the same time! That is very fine, and it allows those with an interest in the political and administrative nature of this to have something to do. I am just hoping that the "become-an-official-nation" isn't the highest of goals right now. Are there good resources where I can hear Igor's specific perspective on the goals currently and in the mid-term future(I think I understand the grand scheme of things)?

(P.S. I see my length-of-time writing these posts is causing me to miss much of the conversation : P woops heh)

  Last edited by:  Nohbdy Ahtall (Asgardian)  on Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 21:23 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Missing words / typos.

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 22:02 UTC

"I am doubtful anyone will show you what they are working on."

Fair enough. :-)

I am personally doubtful that I am in the remotest bit interested in hearing about anything someone foolish enough to fall for a "Space Nation" has to "pitch". No wait. There's no doubt, actually. I wouldn't touch anything I heard pitched here with my enemy's ten foot pole. Are you serious???

I do appreciate your concern though. Truly. :-)

[edit] P.S. It also occurs to me that anyone sharing important (probably propriatory) work on an anonymous social website would be kin to an idiot. Just saying...

  Updated  on Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 22:18 UTC, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: (sp)

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 22:59 UTC

I have no interest in your Asgardian Post Office. I use e-mail. Have you heard of it?

Nov 16, 01 / Nov 20, 17 23:36 UTC

"Virtual Post Office and Asgardian Post Cards"

Huh? I'm afraid you have lost me entirely with that. No, I'm not interested in Post Cards? I guess...