Jul 2, 01 / Jul 17, 17 01:31 UTC

Re: I do NOT accept the Constitution  

extropiste

It appears that the term "kingdom" applies to the "privilege" Asgardians have in their claimed territories. The Supreme Values outline the privileges citizens are granted in Asgardia. Essentially, Article 4, Section 3 "Asgardia’s absolute supreme value is humanity striving into the infinite future, the infinite Universe, and infinite new Universes" is a privilege you are granted by Asgard Society> You will always be supported in the effort to find new territory. You, nor any other Asgard, are required to actually pursue these ends however. Oh, you may not have noticed, but this provision covers time travel as well. Sure, we have limitations now.... but just around the horizon is an asteroid with more metals than humanity has mined through all of history waiting to be processed. Then beside it is thousands more and so on. I'm not sure why you derive this means it condones inefficiency and unsustainable life paths. 

In your third gripe about the Constitution, this contradicts your first gripe against monarchy. The monarchy stood against the common person having a say. It appears that Asgard government is predominately meritocratic though it appears to be open to capture by more arbitrary distinctions like hereditary and friendship. Our worry should be corruption of its principles of equal opportunity and best service to Asgardia and humanity. I am uncomfortable with appointed officials, but I understand the short falls of pure democracy. I am willing to give it a try. 

I'm pretty sure "official" languages are just languages Asgardia is required to communicate in. I'm not sure this is a relevant issue given where AI will be by the time it matters. People will have Universal Translators which can decipher non-programmed vernacular. I don't believe the "languages" should represent "culture." They are just sounds we make to represent things and the "cultures" of people from many languages are as diverse within as between.

Ya, the taxes thing seems like the hook. This could be the scam of it all. But hey. Just don't pay up and renounce your citizenship. I am not expecting "taxes" any time soon. These people at the top of this appear to be philanthropists with their own piles of wealth already accumulated. Personally, I've always considered it the responsibility of the rich to advance the welfare of all, which means also making poor people rich. 

I don't understand the comment about Asgardia-1. Its just a jumpdrive in orbit. If you sign the Constitution, they give you a commemorative space in the orbital jumpdrive to put your information in. Its nothing really special. We already sign contracts to put our information in orbit, we just don't really store it up there. The waste would be to shoot it up there for failed bid at nationhood.... and you would have wasted a few minutes transferring some files to go up. You are wasting more time just writing this up though I don't really consider it a waste even if its for naught with respects to Asgardia.




  Last edited by:  Mariya Kudryavtseva (Asgardian, Member of the Parliament)  on Asg 14, 03 / Jul 1, 19 04:22 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jul 2, 01 / Jul 17, 17 06:20 UTC

I also do NOT accept the Constitution.

Once the constitution decided, we can not change it or a part of it without the Congressional decision.

I feel the same about Kingdom. Why not Country or Republic?

I also feel strange that the limited ages for the Ministers and Representatives is too old. 

Jul 2, 01 / Jul 17, 17 14:54 UTC

Me, as a homossexual, do not feel myself represented in that constitution. Not a single word about my condition as a homossexual in the whole text. Instead only those general mentions to indivual rights being preserved, but why not mention clearly about the protection of diverse sexual orientation? Will be Asgardia a country equal to most of others, where sexual condition is left to a unspoken issue, a hidden stuff?  It is extremely dangerous to keep morality under so much protection. Will be homosexuality, bissexuality, transgenderness and many other variants of the human sexuality one day seen in Asgardia as a threat to moral? If that won't change, count me out!

  Last edited by:  MASSARI (Asgardian)  on Jul 2, 01 / Jul 17, 17 14:56 UTC, edited 1 time in total.

Jul 5, 01 / Jul 20, 17 23:47 UTC

Everyone is setting up a medieval hollywood film, today's monarchies are not tyrannical like those of years ago, today European monarchies have been the first to modernize and provide unprecedented rights and better quality of life, in addition monarchies are regulated in All Europe, and in Asgardia is equal, is a regulated monarchy.


Who wants to leave can do it, it is in his right, but I believe that a constituent monarchy is ideal, in addition to that the king will be voted by the people themselves, I see no problem.


Long live the kingdom of Asgardia


Jul 9, 01 / Jul 24, 17 23:09 UTC

@Sley(Asgardian) on 20 July 2017, 11:47 p.m.

Everyone is setting up a medieval hollywood film, today's monarchies are not tyrannical like those of years ago, today European monarchies have been the first to modernize and provide unprecedented rights and better quality of life, in addition monarchies are regulated in All Europe, and in Asgardia is equal, is a regulated monarchy.

Who wants to leave can do it, it is in his right, but I believe that a constituent monarchy is ideal, in addition to that the king will be voted by the people themselves, I see no problem.

Long live the kingdom of Asgardia

I recommend you read the histories of "today's monarchies..." You will find they did not evolve without much bloodshed and war. Is this what you wish to see of the future Asgardia?

Jul 9, 01 / Jul 24, 17 23:44 UTC

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/king-of-bhutan-gives-up-his-absolute-monarchy-799881.html

Yes all Monarchs through out  history should be painted by the perception of the 5th to 15th Century Kings and Queens who claimed "Devine Right" to do anything they chose.

Jul 10, 01 / Jul 25, 17 03:39 UTC

@Buck Rogers(Asgardian) on 24 July 2017, 11:44 p.m.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/king-of-bhutan-gives-up-his-absolute-monarchy-799881.html

 Yes all Monarchs through out  history should be painted by the perception of the 5th to 15th Century Kings and Queens who claimed "Devine Right" to do anything they chose.

Absolutely! History is the guide that strongly suggest a pattern for which we can easy follow into the future. To use your example of Bhutan, you first acknowledge that they started as an absolute monarchy. And, very recently became a democracy. Why is that?

Furthermore, the case of Bhutan is a unique case where no evidence of that region ever being conquered nor occupied exist. Since the Tibetan Buddhist started writing the history of that country, it has always been a kingdom. Its people have largely avoided wars, but have experienced their own long, bloody civil war until the late 19th century. Aside from that, if their Kingdom was such a poster-child for what Asgardia should become, why are there still factions within Bhutan that want to setup their own governments? As recently as 2003, there were Assamese that unsuccessfully tried to separate from Bhutan.
Bhutan benefits from the unique and somewhat difficult geography that cannot make it exemplarity of how Asgardia should grow. As a “space kingdom,” there will be no difficult terrain to prevent (or make difficult) wars from interested parties. 

In regard to those “5th to 15th Century Kings and Queens,” Europe evolved through many painful changes on the road to democracy. Not starting from the 16th century, but much earlier. In fact, there were many more challenges from the 16th century on.
But I digress… The core question in why many have rejected this constitution: why not start as a democracy or something “better?” Why start with such archaic ideas with a terrible history around it?

Why should Asgardia be forced to experience those same painful growing pains as other modern democratic societies? The evolution from a Monarchy to a democracy (in one form or another) has never been an easy road! Why must we not only forget the legacy (and benefit) of Earth’s history as dictated by Declaration of Unity document, but also trip over ourselves as we shed blood and tears on the same road of repeat history? 

Jul 10, 01 / Jul 25, 17 04:21 UTC

Yes, we should also forget the blood that has been spilt by those involved in Civil Wars.  Many being democratic in their system of government.  

Jul 10, 01 / Jul 25, 17 11:52 UTC

@Lore Zyra
Because of, as we all know, a kingdom is the nearest thing to a company, but with the right to make its own laws, where the company have to respect its country government's ones, pay taxes, etc.
Not to underestimate: differently from a company, a kingdom have not to pay taxes, it can collect them, instead.

Jul 17, 01 / Aug 1, 17 20:42 UTC

I do NOT accept this "constitution".

This "constitution" is a joke. Do you have the intention of being "modern" and to not repeat Earth Humans' mistakes, but are you adopting a Monarchy?!

Jul 19, 01 / Aug 3, 17 08:41 UTC

please read https://asgardia.space/en/forum/forum/constitution-132/topic/constitutional-clear-up-7394/ and help clear up confusion and argument

Oct 13, 01 / Oct 20, 17 19:39 UTC

Apparently my post was removed.  

Oct 16, 01 / Oct 23, 17 02:45 UTC

@ankle biter.

I am unaware of any posts of yours being removed, I would encourage you to re-post in this case. 

thank you. 

Nov 16, 02 / Nov 20, 18 16:06 UTC

I can't agree to a Constitution for a kingdom. It means that it will have a king soon. In my opinion, that is completely medieval. The other reason is that if I agree to the constitution even if I don't have to pay this year, probably I will have to pay in 2020, and if I don't contribute properly, I will be issued a fine  for not participating properly in a nation that does not exist geographically. I liked it better when it was called the space NATION.

Asg 14, 03 / Jul 1, 19 02:42 UTC

The issues have been brought up before when it was first shown to everyone but the constitution was forced on people. There was no vote on whether to adopt the constitution or not, there was either accept it or not be part.  I did not accept the constitution then and I still won't as long as Igor ignores what others want.