Sounds Fair??

Total number of votes: 30

70% Yes

30% No

Dec 27, 16 / Cap 26, 00 15:46 UTC

Law Enforcement  

I dont think you should give law enforcement to much power because even though there are people doing it for the good of others, there are people who will just abuse power as you can see from our past this has always been a major problem never paid attention to so I believe we should give the people the power to fight back against an officer in the wrong and when brought to court both or the person will have a lie detector test to see if the story is just. also we need a judge that goes by law but "common sense, justifiable or not, and fair" should go over law and we need a judge with no prejudice(mainly doesn't care about race, if your in the right your in the right if your wrong your wrong plain and simple)no more false sentences and false punishments for having the correct human reaction also we need to loosen the technicalities on self defense so people won't just be going to jail for protecting their life. the lie detector test is to see if the murder was from bad intention to kill or actually fearful self defense(depending if the fear was justified will come to account if come back truthful knowing some people are just really fearful) so even if it comes back the murder of a person(law enforcement to)was from "self defense" if the situation didnt call for the action or that amount of fear the person will be charged with "fearful self defense" which in result will lead to a sentence based fairly off the situation up to 5-10 years. If proven self defense they spend 1-3months in jail for taking a life, if proven a murder they spend 25-Life for the crime.

Dec 29, 16 / Cap 28, 00 23:03 UTC

I feel we will need to start with appropriate education and training of the law enforcement body as a whole, the training should include the laws as it relates to the job they need to do,offensive and defensive training,appropriate gear and equipment, proper and effective checks and balances,a requirement to have training every year in order to maintain and upgrade any nessesary information or practices needed, a need for preventative measures using personnel and technology, a method to communicate and effect change through laws between lawmakers and law enforcement that would help both the community and the enforcement bodies ,also a commitment between all parties ( lawmakers,enforcement body and population) to foster a positive attitude. There is a lot that will be require from other agencies from social to administration that will affect how the population lives and how that will affect law enforcement.

Jan 11, 17 / Aqu 11, 01 15:49 UTC

I would be interested in becoming an officer of the Asgardian Law Enforcement Agency. If that is an option.

Plus I don't think a person that lawfully Defended themselves should ever go to prison.

Jan 13, 17 / Aqu 13, 01 04:38 UTC

We should have a generic security force for both law enforcement and defense.

Yes they should have a decent amount of power because of the fact things are different on a space station. Think of it like a ship.

No they should not be walking judges and juries but will have to have power.

Jan 13, 17 / Aqu 13, 01 14:53 UTC

Law enforcement by it's very definition should have authority else it is not really enforcement. Most of what you're trying to solve here is typically cured by education on both law enforcement agents and citizens. As someone who has spent a career overseeing courts and punishments for both civilians and law enforcement agents, I can assure that the overwhelming majority of cases that I was involved in tend to be handled appropriately. It is the small minority that are the most reported on and in many cases, the appropriate actions are usually taken to remove offending officers in the event that unsanctioned repetitious behavior occurs.

Education on both sides of the fence, including citizenry, is very important as I find most individuals to not know their legal rights as well as they claim. "I know my rights man," notwithstanding, many individuals are not aware of proper policing procedures or use of force tiers, or even further, what behavior is considered resistance for the safety of all involved.

This does not of course excuse officers who fail to follow such guidelines and in most successful departments, a two to four year education prerequisite is required and I fully believe that those educational barriers should exists along with successive OJT and CLE standards which are required of other legal professionals.

Without being inflammatory, I would also like to let you know that, at least in the United States, sentences are not staple because "common sense",specifically on the part of the adjudicator is already applied. Circumstances in extenuation and mitigation are utilized at every sentencing so that someone doesn't receive an unfair sentence. Unfair sentencing is what our current system has evolved from. Is it perfect, no, but no justice system can ever be perfectly fair to all parties since you cannot compare the suffering of one party to another or quantify the exact harm an individual does to society without also considering all the elements of the offense and the motives of the offender. Promising specific punishments for specific crimes is also illegal since you have basically established a predestined punishment without the consideration of matters.

Finally unless bio-metrics seriously improve, I would hope to never see them in an official capacity. There are reasons they do not allow them within the judicial system and it is because they are severely flawed. Though they can work, their success is limited and are alterable by a number of factors, sleep, diet, personality, etc. And are easily overcome by someone of reasonable intelligence. I have had four high level security clearances in my life and none of them utilized polygraph technology due to their inadequate accuracy. I have also personally demonstrated their inaccuracies in several entry-level criminal justice courses so in my opinion, they should not be implemented until they are improved upon.

Kanok is headed in the right direction with all-around education and legal/judiciary/citizenry association. The only thing I would add, at least in the beginning, is a mandatory part-time civilian oversight council, as those have been proven to greatly affect the overall success and approval of law enforcement activities.

Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 22:05 UTC

What is being talked about is the rare bad apple. Yes in law enforcement there are bad apples just as there are in regular life. Being in a small area law enforcement would be more of a detain and a forensic team. A small detention area with a small force of police. I would say a taser would be all that is needed as where will they go? If every detention is followed up by a forensic team this would act as a deterrence against rogue police. With the proper training there should be no need for civilian oversite committees when you have elected officials that can do the same job thus reducing the work load on the civilians.

Feb 4, 17 / Pis 07, 01 01:50 UTC

Intelligence Agency is a MUST. This solves the curruption issue. How ever there needs to be a structure that any intelligence gathering is the result of information of interest becoming known. No Offensive at all. That will lead to issues about privacy ect example A complaint is left in a letter from a police officer informing us (whoever is intelligence/security) that they are aware of a group of individuals that are extorting shop owners and any businesses by the old 'protection money' ways. From here the investigation can begin which may include survalence, undecover working as a new employee at a business that has to pay whatever ammount ect then once enough evidence has been gathered call in without prior notice (incase of a leak)half a dozen police . No need to go into full details as that will be for them and the courts/peeople to see. But just say who the target is, where they are and maybe a simple reason such as aresting for criminal exstortion.

Feb 4, 17 / Pis 07, 01 18:48 UTC

Actually, intelligence agencies promote corruption, it's kind of thier job. You should study intelligence agencies sometime. The best ways to avoid issues of privacy is to make no attempts to circumvent it, it should be inherent and strong within the original model, and make circumvention unfeasible.

To consider the example provided of "protection money" - what is it they are supposed to be buying protection from, precisely? Theft, damage and destruction don't seem too feasible as the vast resources required to actually build somewhere for this to take place should be able to provide for near-instant replacements, costless if we're harvesting the immense resources available in the solar system. It'd take a special kind of idiot to start setting light to the boat they're floating in, as a way of chasing a fictional resource that's rendered irrelevant by the pure quantity of available resources and the fire suppression systems would mitigate spread.

Civillian oversight committties are a good idea because of their independant nature. Elected officials is how you create a mess like this, not solve it.

Feb 10, 17 / Pis 13, 01 10:58 UTC

It is an old idea but can we call our law enforcement 'peace officers' to instill the concept of their purpose is to keep the peace.

Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 18:44 UTC

I could write a huge response too every part of that post. But i honestly can not be bothered doing so on some who has so little clue into the topic. This is summed up and evident from the very first post. And made even worse from your attempt at being "smart", I will just say one thing in reply too that second line- In regards too studying it, If this was 10 years ago i would agree with passion and excitement. However its not, so that stage has been and gone a long time ago.

The attempt to sound intelligent (i will ignore the personal aspect, which being completely false is also extremely offensive) i suggest next time you reply you should take your own advice.

"Actually, intelligence agencies promote corruption, it's kind of thier job. You should study intelligence agencies sometime. The best ways to avoid issues of privacy is to make no attempts to circumvent it,"

  1. No, An Intelligence Agencies job is to deal with Intelligence which is a category's that stems many different sub areas and divisions. (None of what have Positions/Job Tittles of promoting corruption.

  2. Whilst im not at all agreeing with you, I can see where the basis of that silly comment steams from and that would be One Sub Category of the few various categories. In this case you would be referring to HumInt as the Main (Human Intelligence) and a Collection Agency as the sub, as opposed to ex. Assessment another sub. This would be one Agency i agree has no part in Asgardia. In case this is confusing you at all in basic terms Human Intelligence Collection I am against having such in Asgardia.

  3. As i mentioned you should do as your embarrassingly (on your behalf) said to me. I wont quote it again out of respect. Therese so many so ill just pick one that i strongly believe is critical to have to ensure the safety of our nation. Under the Main catagry SigInt (Signals intelligence) and at this stage i feel only an Assesment SigInt would be needed. As time progresses and unknown threat from both earth itself and possible outside threats Communication via Signals (Radio Waves, Audio Frequencys, amything and everything to do with electronic communication) would be a very silly choice not to have. If we in time establish communication methods (single or multi-pal ways) Its important to have a group dedicated to monitoring that. In the case of encountering other life forms we will not know there true intentions (example being a predator race that when first contact is made are intentionally gaining our trust my deceptive ways and false friendship. Having a small team dedicated to monitoring our systems in case any outsiders attempt to hack and or destroy any systems we come to rely on. Imagine 15 years into this and suddenly all electrical and/or other systems we develop shutdown, or worse, are used to as a means of harming our nation by hacking and changing things to do what they were not intended.

That is just one of so so many. With all due respect, you should think before you speak/type next time because that is extremely offensive to myself personally and im sure many other asgardians. You only hear about things when they go bad or something/someone fucks up. You have no clue the amount of time and effort accross the many varying Intelligence sectors that men and woman in teams are constantly preemptively stopping actions that would have otherwise harmed civilians. As our job industry requires dealing with Issues and Material that are protected in a range of Vetting levels, the general public has no clue how much work we do that goes unknown resulting in no recognition or thanks, somethings may require us to leave our wife and kids at 3am in the morning not even allowed to saying where or why we are going other than "work reflated" and on rarer occasions not returning for a week without being able to contact the family all because we are needed to stop something that is an emergency threat to the people. Ill leave it there, Please next time put your views in a more civil way as discussion is what we are hear for, not to attack or degrade others ideas (which unfortunately has back fired this time) I offer my hand in friendship so we can put this minor tension/negative encounter behind us and continue as friends and a team in moving forward. Kind Regards my Asgadian Brother, Andrew

Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 19:06 UTC

I would not mind being an officer of the law, seeing how the word enforcement suggests a miltarian state/dictatorship, I am going to avoid using it and think any peace keeping force in Asgardia should as well. I also think simply educating future officers of the law will not be enough. It is my opinion that any officer of the law found to be corrupt, should be stripped of their position, punished if need be, attempted to be rehabilitated, and integrated back into society if possible. Their immediate removal from power will address corruption issues more effectively in the short term. While educating them works better in the long run as it could help prevent future scenarios of corruption. Actually, now that I think about it, using both ideas in tandem would prove hugely beneficial. By addressing both the short and long term problems corrupt officers of the law creates.

Our citizens would feel safer knowing such officers will lose their positions and no longer have the authority to get a way with being corrupt and future generations could benefit from better educated citizens who will become officers of the law

  Updated  on Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 19:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 19:08 UTC


A yes/no poll without an actual question is not a poll. "Law Enforcement. Sounds Fair?" is far too vague to answer with anything.

  Updated  on Feb 27, 17 / Ari 02, 01 19:08 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 10, 17 / Ari 13, 01 08:40 UTC

As an individual who has worked in law enforcement for years now in the US, I can say that things could be run much more effectively than we have been doing.

There are plenty of individuals out there in the Law Enforcement community with good intentions, the right motivations, and the knowledge to perform their duties thoroughly. Unfortunately, there are those among us who fail to find one or more of those attributes.

I believe that all people need supervision of sorts. The way in which they are supervised is the biggest point of discussion for many. Law enforcement in the US maintains a very public appearance to remind people that they are there and watching for illegal activities. Other forms of law enforcement fall to a more reactive style which responds to an incident once it occurs and stays behind the scenes otherwise.

Power can corrupt no matter what the power is. This could be at the law enforcement level, the judicial level, or appellate level is that were to be included. Oversight is one way to try and dissuade corruption from entering into something as important as law enforcement and other aspects of government.

I believe that there should be an oversight committee to review actions resulting in arrest, injury, or damage to property. Those found liable, whether law enforcement or other, should be held liable whether it's a matter of punishment, re-education, or merely a fine for the damages. If law enforcement is acting within the purview of their assignment then the liability should fall to those whose actions required law enforcement's response.

Transparency within law enforcement is required in order to gain the trust of the public. Lack of transparency and miscommunication through media is what has caused the falling opinion of law enforcement in the United States. There are certain matters which cannot be divulged entirely due to the security of a certain assignment or investigation although a group of citizens could be appointed that are not part of the investigation that could oversee the progress made by law enforcement.

Educate the public on the laws of Asgardia from the beginning. This would promote knowing what the limits are in order to ensure the safety of people and property within the Asgardian community. This would also prevent citizens from claiming to be uninformed or unfamiliar with the laws, a common occurrence in my everday encounters.

Educate law enforcement in the spirit behind the law so that laws can be enforced effectively. This would include a study of the laws themselves, their interpretation so as to understand the spirit of the law and what it is meant to do. Law enforcement would need training in the laws, use of force (defensive tactics), negotiation, recognition of mental illness, first aid training, etc. I do not believe that law enforcement should be limited to only enforcing the law, they could also serve as another arm to protect citizens by providing medical assistance when needed. Currently in the US, law enforcement officers receive basic first aid certifications and the only other training they recieve is at their own expense or found to be optional through the department most of the time.

Educate the judiciary in the interpretation and upholding of the law so that it may dissuade offenders from re-offending and others from offending in the first place. Whether you used a single judge to rule on a case or a panel of judges to limit bias and corruption is something to be debated.

Lastly, create a branch within the Ministry of Justice and staff it with those who can review and determine if the correct decisions are being made (i.e. an Appellate wing). Wrong decisions or misinterpretations happen every day whether it's a legal matter or a discussion over a current event. The appellate level could serve as the last line to ensure that justice is carried out appropriately.

As time goes on and technology advances, we may get to the point where AI can assist or replace humans in the capacity of law enforcement. There will always be a need for human oversight though to ensure that justice is fair.

The single largest downfall I have seen in the US justice system is the amount of time spent by the courts to review, argue, decide, and sentence cases. It's not uncommon for a case to take upwards of a year before it sees the light of a courtroom. By no means do I support empowering law enforcement to act as the judge, jury, and executioner. However, we should ensure that justice is hastily carried out and done so in the name of truth and righteousness. Too often can offenders stretch out a case to where justice seems meaningless as the offense is nearly forgotten.

Mar 13, 17 / Ari 16, 01 17:02 UTC

Trust. Thats the main factor here. We need to be able to trust our law inforsment, transparency would help but holding them to a higher moral standard is the real way. Also im getting very sick of people claiming inteligince while simultaneously mocking or insulting others. Basic psychology would tell you thats not how you change a persions views or mentality. If your more intelligent then others here pull them up with you dont kick them down

Apr 28, 17 / Gem 06, 01 00:16 UTC

Peace keeping is a must. High standards in training those peace keeping forces are also a must. Officers are to be reviewed regularly, so they can get a feedback to improve. Any notions of power fantasies should be quelled with reeducation or expulsion from the force . It is vital to avoid the typical scare tactics around police forces. You should not fear the police but the consequences of your own actions. As the peace keeping force will double as the ad hoc military in case of conflicts with outer threats, the structure of the peace keeping corps should be a combination of a police and a military unit. Again, schooling the force is of immense importance. Classic enemy stereotypes are to be avoided; no dehumanisation of opposing forces or suspects is to be allowed.

Addendum :
Sorry for resurrecting this thread.
As an old-fashioned German, I naturally have a knack for military. ^^
So if the need arises, I have experience with light to heavy equipment plus demolitions.
I'm a bit old for goose-stepping but fear the mighty Klappspaten (folding shovel)!

  Last edited by:  Les Vosla (Translator, Asgardian)  on May 11, 17 / Gem 19, 01 22:19 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time