Jan 11, 17 / Aqu 11, 01 20:14 UTC

Re: Eliminate the monetary system and here's why.  

True, eliminating money will not eliminate lazyness - but, having money doesn't eliminate that either. I do honestly think this would be a minority. Between personal goals and the social stigmata developed by the new "classes" - Those that will and those that won't - and education it'll be really minor. Even if not, a notable economist analysing the UBI model seems to think it'd still function if "80% of people sit on their couch and smoke weed" - So I see no reason why that should cease being true if one simply removed the tokens. Definitely, there's those that will, when offered the chance to realise their full potential, choose to instead sit watching porn(without artificial gravity, that could get messy) or play games - or demonstrate they are a complete spastic by entering data into the datamines of a corporation that has given multiple examples they have no ethical or moral restrictions in the way they abuse this data, or their position as a data source as they manipulate feeds in order to adjust the limits and directions in which they victims, I mean users, can think -=- Like facebook. As long as this isn't excessive, then with the exeption of docile media it shouldn't be too dangerous, and not impact upon anyone else - ultimately, tasks like completing Grand Theft Auto 15 won't be lent as much weight as designing a new exhaustless propulsion method, reasearching new methods to fight cancer, or exploring somewhere never trod by man before....

It should certainly never exist at the saturation to cause an issue with you - maybe once they're too fat to fit through the door to their hab it might be tiresome having to cut them out so they can be taken to medical services, then repair the damge you just caused.

Initially, the first in space will undergo psychological testing - Like NASA / ESA / Roscosmos etc do already. The early starters will be in the worst conditions, and it needs to be assured they can handle it. Handle being squished into a tin can with five others. etc. By the time we're thinking about housing our population however, then in order to do that we're going to need a lot more resources than we can feasibly lift from the surface -=- So it's got to wait until after we've acquired infinite resources(Acting now, I could get this done to allow for construction about 2050/2060) and v/little of of what you'd expect to exist would be absent, having literally every element in the periodic(apart from the unstable superheavies etc) in more abundance than we can use. Environment engineered to suit.

As for how big the ship/station is - depends which one. Different ones for different purposes will be different sizes. Due to the vast nature of space, in different places too. But even in the early days of setting up in near-Earth orbit, it'd makes sense to build more than one - A single point of failure is only clever if you intend on failing - minimally three, preferably nine spaced across the same orbital belt should allow for multiple redundancy. Should one suffer critical systems failure causing abandonment, there's two stations either side to split the load across. In less serious situations, and with the right spacing, assistence can be there in under and hour. If I have anything to say about it, each would have stock capacity for about 100,000 people - which splitting our current populaiton across would leave plenty of room for expansion - and design capacity to be expanded for another 700,000 or so heads. Plus farms(conventional and energy), research stations, etc. So should you want to cut these people out of your lfie, it's not as if you'll be cramped up in the same eight by ten foot room with them.

The only problem you highlight I'm unable to resolve with logic is the fabrication of "classes" and social stygmata - This I feel is contradictory to founding Asgardian ethics. But, I don't have all the answers. Human behaviour is something that often confuses and even more commonly concerns me. I can't understand it so I'm unable to accurately model a solution.

Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 19:26 UTC

Money is the root of all evil. Is there anyone that can dispute that? I agree with Mark J Cook, we need to eliminate the monetary system. Just like he said I would go crazy sitting around. I would rather surround myself with curious people who want to learn how the space station works. How we could assist in it's everyday operations. Learn to navigate or how to build a agricultural system that would feed our fellow citizens. I would volunteer to serve in the Asgardian security force. I would serve as a translator and teach a common language. There are so many things one can do to insure a self sustaining mutual community. Why stain that with money and greed? The ultimate goal here is knowledge. We must insure the equal share of education, technology, medicine etc. No more corporate greed or war machines. A community of free people for the people. Thank you for allowing me to share my opinion.

Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 19:51 UTC

Surprise surprise. The commenters on the forums have the same obsured "opinions" as those in the various Facebook groups.

I only have one question for these individuals who beleve that the abolishment of a monetary system is a great idea.

How do you suppose that we establish trade with other nations?

I'm done with these forums until the discussions become based in reality.

  Last edited by:  James Brazil (Asgardian)  on Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 19:52 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 20:44 UTC

@Nomadic-Kittens Just because people want to break away from an old draconian system doesn't mean they are unrealistic. Maybe they are more creative than you in how they see a possible future? Who said we have to trade with other nations? Maybe a self sustaining community is possible? One that doesn't need pessimistic views.

  Last edited by:  Raul DeJesus (Asgardian)  on Jan 18, 17 / Aqu 18, 01 20:47 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 19, 17 / Aqu 19, 01 11:13 UTC

Decades ago, a visionary put in words the absurdity, some of us know this without being ever told, but most are oblivious and shudder in fear To the mere idea...

"We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living."

This was said by Richard Buckminster Fuller.

Jan 19, 17 / Aqu 19, 01 21:03 UTC

Hello, I want to pinpoint a fact here, in space, money doesn't have any uses, where will you find a giant market with all you want ? Beside some objets that can be printed, and very rare items from Earth (weight in rockets are very expensives !), the concept of money will not worth the risk to separate people into rich and poor, in space a psychopath or a angry guy can be deadly to the survival of the station.. I think that the happiness and the health care must be prioritized, there is nothing more dangerous than a guy who lost hope in a closed environment with a bunch of people !

So, you will give money to people for theyr work, with that money they will buy the food that they produce, but then what ? If someone begin to be lazzy you will starve him to death ?? Most of the time, ppl in space will work with remote controlled systems, there is nothing that can prevent a 3D mod from printing whatever he want, after all, there will be a big amount of nerds to keep programs in place, then the security could be cracked.. And i don't think there will be a wallmart in space any soon...

Jan 22, 17 / Aqu 22, 01 02:58 UTC

Honestly your proposal is unrealistic and ill conceived you based it around the idea of automation and that is something that Asgardia would not see for sometime after it is up and running. Also because Asgardia will be space based there will be a huge if not vital need for Asgardia to engage in trade with other nations and money will be necessary for that. Every nation on Earth as well as Asgardia would have to agree on leaving the current monetary system behind and due to the greed of some and the integration of money into every day life that is not likely to ever happen! Which means as of right now money is here to stay. Your idea is centuries or even millennia to soon to be feasible

Jan 22, 17 / Aqu 22, 01 22:45 UTC

This is an interesting discussion.

I don't think that anyone can do without some sort of system of exchange; whether it is monetary or not. The reason being is because where you have a group of people there is going to be exchange of goods. when there is exchange of goods, there needs to be something to determine the value of those goods. Currently we use cash for that. Even if the society goes cash-less there are going to be exchanges. Such as everyone has access to ore, but I learn to carve it and others would like my carvings. So we will need some sort of exchange, however I do not think it necessarily has to be monetary.

The other concept I see is about automation. There is always giong to be a need of people. Oil rigs found this out when they went 100% automated and had something break. they lost millions of dollars a day as they struggled to get someone out there to fix it. So there will always be a demand of people. And as you have those people addressing those issues, you will also have support people. That is someone to cook, clean, administrate, medical, etc. the value of these people cannot be understated, especially if we are talking a self-substaining community.

Jan 24, 17 / Aqu 24, 01 11:28 UTC

What people doesn't get is that the end of the monetary system precisely requires the end of the mindset that creates the need for exchange. Money really does not exist but in human minds. Is not a real thing, is Just a collective mental virus.

Jan 24, 17 / Aqu 24, 01 20:49 UTC

What are you talking about Curbina? The need for exchange is not created by a mindset, it is created by necessity like all things are! The reason why money will not be going anywhere anytime soon is because of the over importance we silly humans place on having it. People have to realize that money is only as important as the food, shelter, clothing, education, and transport it can provide. Everyone is caught up in the luxuries money can provide and mistakenly value those things more than they should. Also money does exist, it has a physical form and is in a state of being and that is what existing is defined as

Jan 26, 17 / Aqu 26, 01 11:06 UTC

We can redesign the monetary system but never eliminate it.

We fail to understand money.

What we call money is just a method of storing energy. If u go fishing or build your own house you make a direct energy transfer. When you build for others or fish for others you need a method of storing that energy that you transferred or employed. You give away a fish and someone gives you a tomato, that’s energy transfer… So doesn’t matter what you call it, you need to rely on a transfer system that we call monetary system.

So, I guess we need to re-shape the system and make it fair for people, not destroy it.

  Last edited by:  Frederico Mateus Monteiro Santos (Asgardian)  on Jan 26, 17 / Aqu 26, 01 11:07 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Jan 26, 17 / Aqu 26, 01 23:13 UTC

What are you talking about fred? Money and energy have nothing to do with each other. Nothing you have said makes any sense at all, money is not a way of storing energy. Money is just a tool used to help people obtain the goods and services they may require to survive and a tool to help the minority of folks who have it control the majority who do not

Jan 26, 17 / Aqu 26, 01 23:13 UTC

What are you talking about fred? Money and energy have nothing to do with each other. Nothing you have said makes any sense at all, money is not a way of storing energy. Money is just a tool used to help people obtain the goods and services they may require to survive and a tool to help the minority of folks who have it control the majority who do not

Jan 30, 17 / Pis 02, 01 09:11 UTC

Brandon7, i serious recommend you to read some about the subject. It would be of great help to you.


Thats the first link i found in 10 secs on google, but please look for yourself.

Jan 30, 17 / Pis 02, 01 17:01 UTC

Hello fred, Like I thought your claim is nonsense, you gave me a link to an article written or posted by an individual. Come back when science supports your claim and not just some new age crap

  Updated  on Jan 30, 17 / Pis 02, 01 17:06 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time