Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 11:32 UTC

Re: Personal defense, the debate on carrying weapons on the person.  

Who would protect the citizens then mech?

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 15:22 UTC

As a Special Forces veteran, I have distinct experiences about the tactical and strategic application of various weapons.

The effectiveness of any kind of weapon is determined by the organization, the discipline, training of its carrying force. More than that, it is determined by overall available intelligence and communication between potential fighting men, their units, and their commanding structures.

None of that is remotely achievable in civilian or paramilitary organizations.

The long-term effects of allowing civilians to carry weapons is almost always a much higher rate of accidents by these weapons, a higher proliferation of weapons in society (bad guys have easier access) and an overall escalation of force. (a.k.a. at the end of the day, the policeman wants to come home alive to his family as well.)

If there is a sustained and credible military threat to Asgardia, a military draft might be proposed, that educates each and every citizen in the use of weapons, but keep them locked away from civilian society until a mobilization is required.

That is my very personal opinion based on my experiences. But in the spirit of Asgardia, a personal opinion (any personal opinion) should not matter. Scientific rigor needs to be applied and a logical outcome based on facts needs to be determined.

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 15:56 UTC

@bprager

Nice first post, dude.

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 16:40 UTC

@Bprager,

Why should civilians not have access to weapons all the time when situations that require them to have a weapon could arise at any time? Also, bad guys will still find a way to gain access to weapons so locking them away from law abiding civilians will only aid the bad guys! I understand the idea behind your opinion but, by locking away weapons from civilians. You are basically saying you do not have a right to defend yourselves until we say so. Bad guys do not even need access to firearms to be a threat. Bladed weapons work just as well and are easier to conceal. I also disagree with your opinion, a weapon can be just as effective in the hands of a civilian as it can in the hands of someone with military training.

What determines how effective the weapon will be is the user's understanding of it, how factors like environmental ones affect the projectile's trajectory, and how often the user practices with said weapon or a similiar one. Which in the case of firearms are bb or pellet guns. Not whether or not they have military training, thinking that it does is a misconception. True he does but, the chances of death are sadly part of a policeman's chosen job. If you choose a career that could put you in harm's way, you will eventually meet harm it is just a matter of time and bad guys having access to weapons has no impact on that fact at all. I am quite surprised that you seem to be unaware of that fact given your military background. I am certain you have experienced just what I am talking about haven't you? I mean, maybe not personally but, you had to have seen friends and other service men injured or god forbid killed.

So, I say give the citizens the proper training on the use of firearms and let them carry firearms that fire non lethal tranquilizer rounds

  Updated  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 16:43 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 17:48 UTC

@ bprager

Just a forewarning. The last guy who regularly argued with Brandon7 got himself banned. We don't know details, but I feel you should have a head's up on that.

@ Brandon7

Why should civilians not have access to weapons all the time when situations that require them to have a weapon could arise at any time?

On a space station? In a climate-controlled environment where nobody has guns, everybody has food, water, shelter, and something to do?

If the evidence of behavior on these forums is any indication, I think letting most people have guns is a phenomenally stupid idea, especially on a space station. Apparently people can't even disagree on these forums without someone getting all hot-headed and getting someone ganked. In an enclosed environment, where everyone is likely to know everyone else's business, the social stresses would be even greater and those without self-control would likely lose their minds and kill people.

TMK

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 19:12 UTC

@Phicksur,

Really, I mean really!? You are trying to make it seem as If EyeR got banned because of me and not his own actions! That is low anyone can see that I am not responsible. Be honest and have some class and I think that you have assumed far too much. All people have self control that is irrefutable, many simply do not exercise it. So, allowing folks to carry firearms and properly training them in their use poses no harm to anyone

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 19:30 UTC

EyeR litteraly argued with people in ever category so litteraly it may not have Brandon period. EyeR thought he knew everything. EyeR also did make certain threats as I saw. And new guy who says he's from special forces, What branch of military were you before being selected? Me and Brandon have even spoke to others about non lethal guns. Is there anything wrong with defense? And phickur really look around all categories Brandon7 is not the only one EyeR fought with. Be mature

  Last edited by:  Boone Johnson (Asgardian)  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 19:31 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 19:30 UTC

@ Brandon7

You really need to read what I typed more carefully.

The last guy who regularly argued with Brandon7 got himself banned.

I also feel I should point out that your post is in violation of the same rules that likely got EyeR banned. You may wish to edit that. I can assure you I am not nearly as thin-skinned as others and will not react in the manner in which you may be accustomed.

To answer your final two sentences: no, people do not have self-control. The entire world, and these forums, are full of evidence of people having a lack of self-control.

Having people own and carry firearms in a confined, metal space endangers everyone. Firearms are known for accidentally discharging, even if people do not intend on them doing so. In a confined metal space, things will ricochet. Accidents happen. The exceptionally low chance of danger to any given individual is not outweighed by the danger of a deranged individual having a firearm and using it, a firearm accidentally going off and harming someone, or other similar tragedy.

Your posts indicate you do not trust others to keep you safe. I expect your background has caused this and I feel sorry for you, but I can say that not everyone wants to hurt you, and trust is sometimes worth it.

OTH

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 19:51 UTC

Phickur me and brandon7 on my my area, discuss non lethal guns, go look at it. No dangerous "discharge" will happen. Secondly we already know do you really think we are stupid? We don't wanna risk lives. Find a safer solution and we did. Yes I didn't read thorough but when Brandon's name got brought in made it seem he's the reason. You should just say EyeR. He had brains but didn't use them enirely needed, me and EyeR fought alot but if you find a few areas I agreed with his logic or came to a agreement. But guns and military isn't his thing.

  Last edited by:  Boone Johnson (Asgardian)  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 19:55 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 21:58 UTC

Comment deleted

  Updated  on Jun 15, 17 / Can 26, 01 15:57 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times
Reason: "This user no longer wishes to be associated with a tin pot banana republic"

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 22:10 UTC

@Phicksur,

By mentioning me when explaining why EyeR got banned you indirectly implied that I had something to do with it. EyeR is an adult responsible for his own actions. I made no effort to encourage him to act they way he did, he just did of his own will. Therefore, it was unnecessary to bring my name into why EyeR got banned. You could just as easily said he got banned or not even mentioned it at all. I was not even talking to you to begin with and my comment to bpager simply addressed his post. Maybe you are upset that EyeR got himself banned, if you are it is he you should take that issue up with. Not me and you surely should not be trying to distance folks from discussing topics with me.

As for your assumption that people do not have self control. It is, has been, and will continually be proven wrong by the fact that. Chaos does not reign in this world, if people truly had no self control, folks would be out committing every act they have ever desired to! That is not happening though, which means they must be exercising control over themselves. Now, some folks do not seem to have self control and commit criminal acts. But, the truth is such people are given excuses to blame for their behavior so they can avoid the responsibility of their actions.

You have no idea what my background is so please keep your pity, it is unwanted and unneeded. You also have no clue regarding what I trust folks to do, when folks earn that trust I give it. I do not know many of the people charged with protecting the citizens they swore to protect and because some of those folks do the very opposite of what they swore to do upon becoming officers of the law. I find it idiotic to just trust these folks without having a clue regarding their character. To blindly give trust is moronic and could lead to all sorts of bad situations, just ask any child that was molested by their local priest. Yes, firearms can discharge accidentally but, the odds of accidental discharges happening on the scale you seem to think they will are so bad that, you would be more likely to win the lottery three times in a row and then be struck by lightning! No, it is not but, if you noticed in other topics regarding this very question. I have clearly indicated that I was not for any Asgardian not of sound mind to posses a firearm. So, your point becomes moot and as such is completely irrelevant.

Which manner is that? Furthermore, what do mean be you are not as thin skinned as some people maybe? If you mean to imply that I intend to bother you in some way. I assure you I have no such intentions, I only do to others what I want done to myself. Because of that I do not seek to cause problems with anyone, I will not even expend the energy to show anger towards those I do not like. Which I suspect is why EyeR was so hostile. Because he was unable to anger me, he was unable to gain power over me and that drove him crazy due to his ego.

What post? You have to be more specific than that, oh and, make no mistake I made no request for boone to assist me with EyeR. He did so of his own will, So, I hold no responsibility for the alleged ganking of EyeR and will not be made to carry any. You yourself have seen the toxicity in his posts and know full well that eventually people get tired of that type of negativity.

Anyway, there exists no good reason why folks of sound mind should not be able to carry a weapon

  Updated  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 22:12 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 22:34 UTC

@ Brandon7

I would like to request that you exert your self control and no longer respond to me.

Thank you.

IMS

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 22:49 UTC

They just release a declaration for citizen security so tell me what do you think?

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 23:08 UTC

Personally no military? Fine whatever, but we do need a defense. Litteraly we will not be safe up there. So why not just a security force?

Mar 31, 17 / Tau 06, 01 05:49 UTC

Well boone we could have another group for that to act as police officers