Jan 31, 17 14:17 UTC

Re: People are our greatest Resource  

EyeR - because technologies emerge/change over time the skill list gets revised periodically.

Consider this page: http://www.arc.gov.au/rfcd-seo-and-anzsic-codes which covers research. The first thing I notice is there are 3 different ways of looking at an activity (Type of Activity, Fields of Research, Socio-economic Objective) and the second thing I notice is the list is revised every 10 or 15 years.

Now looking at the Asgardian skill list, who would maintain it and how would it be updated?

Edit: would it be better perhaps to express these data structures JSON format, so they're more easily processed by machine?

  Last edited by:  michael.streeter (Asgardian)  on Jan 31, 17 14:20 UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: " » "?!

Jan 31, 17 18:25 UTC

Peer review is heavily encouraged - it helps prevent mistakes before they happen. And yeah, lol, Access.

Sure things in this thread are all over the place, but it's not as if this structure, as is, is entirely optimum for such uses. Over time I see this as something that can, and will improve. I'm not sure about a "MVP" but there's certainly previous planning as to the required outcome. IMHO nowhere near somewhere sensible to start programing yet, still identifying variables. But when it does, hopefully there will be collaborational tools on tap and between us we can sketch out functions then begin to wrap them into entire services. As to agreement this would be correct, input into the process of identifying variables hasn't been overly productive. After opening a thread in each ministry to capture the widest range, most got deleted. Think 2 remain. Of them one had some input, the other just seemed to be a thread to talk about what a great idea it'd be. I've kinda built that tree solo(and near the limits of my ken - so further expansion appreciated. I should possibly of put some effort into the other trees by now, but I'm lazy).

As for "business use" - there isn't one. It's reason for existence, however, is to facilitate the ease of matching required skillsets in order to easily assemble teams within our number in order to maximise success of initatives. The intent is not to actually access it, really, but instead a search engine which will pass appropriate details, which will include how to initiate contact(eventually we will have uniform facilities in place). As to security concerns, there's no personally identifyable information being collected. Just lists of qualifications, skills etc. Things like contact name(as not to expose the real name, where users have elected for not publicly displaying it) the search engine will simply retrieve this from the existing citizen database - same with geographic location, but this should be "fuzzed" ... reduced in precision. The two indexed together - possibly by ID number, as this wouldn't require adjusting the current copy of the citizen database. Then presumably this would be protected alongside the existing citizen database, encompassed by whatever methods have been deployed to protect this(likely, none by other examples. It's already publicly skimable with ease.) We're kept in the dark largely about this, even after expressly requesting details. Not a good sign, overall.

Previous positions held is a nice one, wish that'd of been thought of sooner. Aspirations and achievements are not poor suggestions within themselves but I find it difficult to model some sort of tree or structure that could contain such. Simple text input feilds would yeild a large number of options that would then require much more linking and tomfoolery with making the engine locate particular things input with different terminologies. Skills do indeed change/evolve/increase over time. My intent was to leave the input open constantly. Once we have educational facilities then courses passed in this can autonomously upgrade the database.

I could put a dollar figure on my time. You couldn't afford it. However, this isn't what motivates me. Just in the time taken to compose this post I'm out of pocket, technically. I'm quite simply prepared to do what needs done because it needs doing. To make sure it gets done. It's not to make friends, it's not to become famous, it's not to make an efficient revenue stream - it's to get it done. It's the end product of this particular initative that keeps me driven towards it's conclusion. This is just the first iteration, V2 will start getting complex. Ultimately, the output of this initative is the engine. Or the contents searched by, I don't imagine the engine itself to be anything special. The ease of connecting tasks to skills, across a wide population base. It's difficult to put a dollar figure on that. It is unquestionably worthy of persuit. The benefits are intrinsic to how it is used. BTW to clock up time spent on this, to ignore the textwall rants and focus on actual design time and data input, less than two hours.

Concerning the three seperate ways to look at a single activity, this should be a function of the engine to encompass. The user specifies what they after and the results delivered. As to the long term maintainence of the list - The community. That's how crowdsourcing works. Over time many individuals see something that needs doing and do it. When you come to put a skill in that you have and it doesn't exist in the DB yet, then you pull up the applicable file and add it yourself if you have to. Put in a pull request and wait for updates to propigate. Concerning the actual storage of this data, simply to compliment the existing DB I was thinking SQL. Kind of an industry standard, really. Quite easilly processed by machines. The tree exists in it's current gimboid form largely for humans. The rest of it is about making it trivial to feed it into awk and have that spit out some valid PHP form, and then similar for the DB queries. That sort of thing only needs specifying once and every option iterates itself. Lazy.

PS: Tyvm for that link, that's helped pad it out to 1k+ lines(and still more to go) before hr 3.

  Updated  on Feb 1, 17 15:42 UTC, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Additional data

Feb 3, 17 11:00 UTC

Regarding Asgardian's aspirations.

I'm thinking (still haven't got a user or a use case) that 'aspirations' from the point of view of the skill holder means 'I want to get into x' so, a person with IT skills says I want to get into AI, or Big Data, a chemist says 'I want to get into Green Chemistry', or a Surveyor says 'I want to get into large construction project management'. Why? Either that's where the money's at, that's where the jobs are, that's where their skills are, or that's where job satisfaction is.

This is not just picking an existing skill off the list and ticking column B.

In any case: the subject is saying "I have not had a previous position in this field, but either a) I have training/skill which I'm looking to use or b) I'm happy to do training and get experience in this area." Or the system is saying to the person asking "We don't have anyone skilled in x... but maybe ask this person what they can bring to the table."

There's bound to be a free SAAS application already in existence - shurely we don't need to design a recruitment database again and write a front-end for it again?

Feb 3, 17 18:59 UTC

Personally, I think originally this post started to get an idea about creating a searchable database for Asgardia project managers/teams to find other Asgardians that would have knowledge and experience in a particular field, of subject area. If we're building a new space nation, we're going to need people from all 'walks of life' to help build! If we have a database that project/teams can search, then it can help assure the most success. We are building a space nation from a group of people that live around the world. I don't see it being particularly easy to walk down the street asking people if they have experience in a field or want to work in an area. But a database could connect people to those that have the training, knowledge, and experience no matter their local.

Feb 4, 17 00:33 UTC

There has been given a use case - several times - search knowlege and or experience to enable and ensure success of initatives.

The who would use it would sensibly be anyone that has a mad(or more conventional) idea, and wants to make it work. If you get the right people involved, if it can be made to work then it will be. The only reason I can think of taking in aspirations would be for furthering their own personal interest in the field, and maybe they have an interesting question which answering will spawn research in a hitherto unthought direction. Less easy to impliment however. Actual skills should be caught in other input areas.

Commonly open source initiatives don't attract people trying to make money. They motivate for a higher purpose. They recognise the value of the output, long term. Concepts like job satisfaction are primary. Don't like it, don't do it - quite simple. Someone, somewhere will.

Feb 15, 17 07:54 UTC

It is sure that people will be the greatest resource of Asgardia. We are the first Asgardians who are wise enough to be interested in Asgardia and certainly many of us are educated, qualified and ambitious. The government of Asgardia should develop a strategy to take advantage of the potential capabilities of the Asgardians. Any Asgardian should not be required to be so qualified and skillful to get an opportunity in Asgardia but the available skills of any Asgardian should be developed and utilized. Creteria should be enacted by the government of Asgardia to accept any person interested to apply for the nationality of Asgardia later.

Feb 16, 17 19:01 UTC

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest in utilising the available resources.

I also strongly feel it is not just the "qualified" that have something tangible to offer. This is the primary reason behind the range of data suggested to collect, specifically the hobbies/interests tree, in order to indicate where this may be. I'm still seeking better ways to achieve this.

With respect to the development of skills, this is something that would rightly be the responsibility of the ministry of education - to the best of my knowlege once this is actually a functional entity with tangible services on offer then education and training should be made available to any Asgardian choosing to seek it. Might take a little while before things actually get like that however. I would envision things completed via such means to autonomously update the skillset database.

I don't think it should be used to reference other nations citizens skills. There may be suitable requirement at some point for Asgardia to officially employ citizens of other nations, but I don't think it has much scope within the database. Right about now, more important than defining critera the government should enact, it's possibly more sane to come to some generalised agreement over which form our government should take.

Mar 17, 01 / Mar 14, 17 17:17 UTC

As the educational qualification tree would be about "feature complete" (as no-one else seems interested in adding to it, it could be expanded as people find what they are looking for does not exist) I've considered to move on to the industrial tree. Here lies an issue with standards - there are many. Should we build upon an existing taxanomy or define our own?

Also as the educational tree is "about right" should it be productive to at least autonomously render that chunk into a suitable syntax in order to build a viable system from in order to be able to utilise this feature whilst the other parts of the database/search develop, and if so, which syntax? PHP strikes me as relatively simple and what appears to be natively served.

Mar 26, 01 / Mar 23, 17 14:30 UTC

I know that I'm late to the discussion, but greetings.

I would agree with the Educational Qualification Tree being expanded, by qualified (certificated/licensed/expert) individuals as the nation grows. As for the Industrial Tree, there is O'NET available as a stepping stone. O'NET example: Aerospace Engineers https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/17-2011.00 There is a Job Code Connection available at https://www.onetcenter.org/codeconnector.html

I believe that over time we would take such a catalogue and expand upon it with new fields, since O'NET is based upon geo-static concepts (planetary bound). The case being Asgardia can develop, after much time, into a Con/Federation of Technocratic City-States, backed by Delegative (liquid) Democracy under Meritorious principles. An example being multiple satellites/colonies within, and including, the Asteroid Belt under a single constitution and guidelines. The actions of a satellite at Earth Lagrange point 3 or Asteroid Eros is going to have different requirements then a colony on Earth, Mars, or even further with a mining base on Ceres. I see Asgardia giving the opportunity for it's Citizens to have one profile available to all locations and the ability to travel/relocate between sites without issue, with relation to pleasure travel, job postings, and needs - attempting to maintain moral and have as low an unemployment rate as possible. Think of the sayings, "See a need, Fill a Need" or "A place for everyone."

This would allow the Citizen to maintain one's identity, reputation, and responsibilities, without having to jump over multiple hurtles of Red Tape or having to start over; while allowing the Governing Bodies to accommodate desires and needs. Thus maintaining balance and accountability for both parties. We don't want situations of 30 Managers, 6 workers, and their extended family, when resources allocate 4 managers, 19 workers, and authorized dependants (family members).

Now this may sound like a Big Government concept, but reading all of the posts, this DB has the intention of being a service based tool to both the Government and the People. The Government using it for solicitation of duties, the Citizens seeking advancement of self, and the Nation's prosperity, a win-win-win scenario. This is were Experts in HR would be needed, to assist in establishing clear guidelines (possibly through an Asgardian Regulatory Code (ARC) of some kind) and approved authorities (or program attributes depending upon your nomenclature) to list the Citizens profiles, verified KSAs, and Licenses.

Greatly respect the work being done here and being able to add my opinions.

Mar 26, 01 / Mar 23, 17 17:24 UTC

Personally I think the aim should be the highest unemployment rate possible. The more we can automate the less primitive we are. Especially in the face of incomming adjustments to the overall economy. This ofc doesn't mean people will sit staring at the walls, and an initative like this can make sure interesting things find people - as opposed to people finding interesting things.

I'm also of the opinion that anything less than a real democracy - no delegation, people can make their own decisions and then legitimately be expected to be responsible for it - will inevitably exhibit the precise same flaws that are currently crippling Earth nations.

The "ARC" isn't a poor notion, but my intention for this initative was to leak no personal information. To assume you've a large ape that's kidnapped a princess and is hurling barrels down a poorly constructed tower and you would require a new jumpman, you can input search perameters like: speaks Italian, comes from japan, and educated/experienced in plumbing, and the results should find all suitable. It should find Mario, if he's in there, but you don't need to know which one of these is Mario. All you need is a list of people likely up for the task, and contact details to ask them if they're interested. If they want you to know more, they can arrange for it.

But to get back onto the topic the educational tree itself, I was considering jquery - mostly because I'd seen someone else reference it with a wanted feature I suspect to be exhibited shortly, and if the site can cope with that modification then it will bleed support over for this if it doesn't exist already. To prevent transfer of the megalithic tree on each page load the tree itself can store in a SQL table, each tier in another table selection of one taxanomy fliters and fetches results from the next resulting in selective transfer beyond the initial list. Such leads me to believe the existing tree would want converting to SQL statements(I less than three awk) and a new database can be prototyped with a tables for trees and citizen educational data, later expanding with similar tables for industrial qualifications, then interests and hobbies. Prototyping the citizen part is the most difficult due to lack of structural information supplied - assuming the current DB is indexed by incrimental ID number this can be used to tie the data in the "skills" DB to the citizen DB for accurate alignments. Then the input form and the search form can begin to take shape, resulting in some functionality at least.

Mar 26, 01 / Mar 23, 17 23:14 UTC

Personally I think the aim should be the highest unemployment rate possible. The more we can automate the less primitive we are. Especially in the face of incomming adjustments to the overall economy. This ofc doesn't mean people will sit staring at the walls, and an initative like this can make sure interesting things find people - as opposed to people finding interesting things.

I'm also of the opinion that anything less than a real democracy - no delegation, people can make their own decisions and then legitimately be expected to be responsible for it - will inevitably exhibit the precise same flaws that are currently crippling Earth nations.

The "ARC" isn't a poor notion, but my intention for this initative was to leak no personal information. To assume you've a large ape that's kidnapped a princess and is hurling barrels down a poorly constructed tower and you would require a new jumpman, you can input search perameters like: speaks Italian, comes from japan, and educated/experienced in plumbing, and the results should find all suitable. It should find Mario, if he's in there, but you don't need to know which one of these is Mario. All you need is a list of people likely up for the task, and contact details to ask them if they're interested. If they want you to know more, they can arrange for it.

But to get back onto the topic the educational tree itself, I was considering jquery - mostly because I'd seen someone else reference it with a wanted feature I suspect to be exhibited shortly, and if the site can cope with that modification then it will bleed support over for this if it doesn't exist already. To prevent transfer of the megalithic tree on each page load the tree itself can store in a SQL table, each tier in another table selection of one taxanomy fliters and fetches results from the next resulting in selective transfer beyond the initial list. Such leads me to believe the existing tree would want converting to SQL statements(I less than three awk) and a new database can be prototyped with a tables for trees and citizen educational data, later expanding with similar tables for industrial qualifications, then interests and hobbies. Prototyping the citizen part is the most difficult due to lack of structural information supplied - assuming the current DB is indexed by incrimental ID number this can be used to tie the data in the "skills" DB to the citizen DB for accurate alignments. Then the input form and the search form can begin to take shape, resulting in some functionality at least.