Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 21:25 UTC

Re: Discussion of the Declaration of Unity  

I think it gives us a good starting point where we can create our own future based on the needs of society. A voluntary collaborative society should be emphasized to encourage participation from citizens.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 21:29 UTC


Overall this is moving into the right direction; I am glad this reflects the reason I am here!

A slight digression first - Since this is a draft made to be discussed / improved, why not simply post it on forums / whathaveyou, let people discuss it, and then publish a finalized decree?
Or maybe the word "draft" is being improperly translated? I also noticed it in decree 2 (the calendar), which was to be discussed but got implicitly approved within decree 3.

On topic:

1) Asgardia is a free and unified space state.

- When using "free", please always clarify whether it is "free" as in "freedom" or "free" as in "free beer". I know it is the former here, but it should be explicit.
- What is the meaning of "unified"? Why mention it? Are we not "united" by default?
- "state": I prefer "nation", which means "new culture" / etc; "state" is in my opinion too narrow.

2) The objectives of Asgardia are to: [...]

I like the objectives; I would only add "protect Earth from within itself" as well (it was clearly mentioned in the last video from Dr Ashurbeyli).

Edit: Careful with the phrasing! See remarks by bigred.

4) All citizens of Asgardia are equal, regardless of [...]

I dislike mentioning all the characteristics. If one goes down that route, why stop at these characteristics in particular? Why not include "regardless of the number of fingers on their hands, their favorite color, their blood type, etc"? I would rephrase point #4 to:
"All citizens of Asgardia are equal in front of the law."
That works just fine. No need to say more.

(Edit: Added "in front of the law" following ka.laszlo's remarks.)

11) Asgardia is a country of free spirit, science and internationalism.

Same as above - too much detail in my opinion. Simply stating:
"Freedom is guaranteed within Asgardia."
is enough in my opinion.

However, it is a good idea to evoke science as a strong point of Asgardia; I would put science into a separate 13th point.

Edit: Very good remarks by ka.laszlo below!

Aside from these details, points 9 and 12 need some clarification, but others here have already expressed that.

Thanks and please keep going, I am loving being a part of this! =)

  Last edited by:  Houzefa Abbasbhay (Asgardian)  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 18:29 UTC, Total number of edits: 3 times
Reason: Link to remarks by ka.laszlo and bigred

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:01 UTC

@bigred I can relate to your reaction to my avatar; I reacted the same way the first time I saw it.
And, as you can see, I took it and made it mine >.<. It is titled HEX, by a digital artist called Dan Luvisi. Very futuristic, electric kind of work.

It might be wise to look into "international laws" before we agree to them.

I got myself some homework now.

@Phicksur your input is always very sobering.

Now comes the rub.

Define your terms in a way that do not infringe on religious liberties or personal responsibility.

Things are not always that simple, but I agree, there should be no tolerance for intolerance. The problem is, how do you go about practicing that without infringing on someone's freedoms. I feel it would be impossible.

I have to add: I feel this declaration is a bit lengthy and goes over explaining stuff that's already been explained in the concept page and that should probably be explained in the constitution and legislation of the country like bigred said here:

It seems to me there is no need to cover all the details just the broad principles. I would think that generally the details of interaction are generally codified in the constitution and the minutiae of daily interactions are held in legislative documents.

So, I believe we should try to keep it as simple as possible while still getting the message accurately.


In order for a democratic nation to operate, its Citizens must be (self) compelled to speak up (or forever hold your peace).

Very much agree with you, and I'm glad to see a lot of community involvement.


  Last edited by:  Yoevelyn Rodriguez (Asgardian, Comm Assistant)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:11 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Fixing formating

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:04 UTC

@ zouzou very good suggestions. Especially the ones about definitions and simplification.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:18 UTC

When will be the next decree coming out? I was too busy at work, I missed it! :(

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:37 UTC

@Tida I don't think we have an actual schedule. They seem to be posting randomly. However, they will be posting soon because they are working on the two drafts to be voted on Unity Day.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:41 UTC

@zouzou I think 11) does not need any simplification. Do not overdo it :) Science is important indeed, but free spirit is the soil of art, as internationalism is for a new level of social life. Also stating simply that "freedom is guaranteed" would conflict with any retorsion based on law. As for 4) it is basically a joke; not true, and cannot be true. We do not even know who knows and handles our personal data, but we do not even have any clue who are operating the website, who are the other involved personnel. Are we equal, do we have equal rights? No, but there could be a correction, maybe "all citizen of Asgardia is considered equal in front of the law".

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:46 UTC

It seems most people on this forum have commented along very similar lines.
Most of the statements in the declaration just need re-wording however statements 9,11 & 12 appear to be creating a lot of consternation.

We could continue this forum with every new poster making the same comments which would mean endless pages of debate without actually having any full understanding or feedback into the discussion by the people who wrote it. This becomes pointless because we are essentially speaking without knowledge......never a good idea.

@Rebekah & @Rainbow - you guys are "global admins" so you must have some form of direct communication with Lena and the guys in vienna and moscow. Would it be possible to bring knowledge to this discussion by getting some feedback from them.

Basically we need clarification on those points before we can make positive and sensible suggestions. The purpose of this forum is feedback for the creation of this document, we need to understand their meaning and intent before we can be sure we are giving sensible, correct and useful feedback.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 22:55 UTC

I like this version of it but I think that, that last point needs to be clarified, I'm pretty sure I know what it's meant to read as but I see a lot of people very confused about it

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 23:06 UTC

@zouzou - I think you are completely correct about brevity and keeping the statements as broad principles of belief and objectives.

just a thought on your point 2.
You are correct that the good Doctor mentioned that on video.
I understand the intent of the Doctor's statement in the video (and yours) was to ensure the future of humankind on earth by creating protection options and methodologies, however stating that in a short form point manner could make it seem like a self appointed policing effort. It might be unfavourable to recognition by other international organisations if they thought Asgardia was setting itself up as an international force policing from space.
It could be looked on as interference in other's affairs.

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 23:18 UTC

and a point for translate all decret on all language of asgardian peoples?

Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 23:38 UTC

I am glad to see that many points from the community's constitution suggestions have been included into the Declaration. The people and the people's will have been heard, and the Declaration reflects that. Nothing concerns me more than the people's will. Good move!

  Last edited by:  John Skieswanne (Asgardian)  on Mar 29, 17 / Tau 04, 01 23:40 UTC, Total number of edits: 2 times

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 00:30 UTC

I like what I see so far.

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 03:20 UTC

@guzlomi this is very much what I was hoping for: input from someone with a background in law. Thank you so much for also explaining the reasoning behind your choices.

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  Last edited by:  Yoevelyn Rodriguez (Asgardian, Comm Assistant)  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 03:40 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: Adding thumbs up

Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 04:00 UTC

Hey everyone, I have read the 'declaration of unity' and I like it for the most part, however - like most of the people with common sense are a bit squemish when it comes to notion '9' there will be no need for political parties. Direct democracy? Liquid Democracy? I am not quite sure how that would even work in the long run. I am entitled to my opinion but the fact that 'political parties' may not play a part in our democracy is somewhat concerning. Sounds like it is paving a way for an technocratic elitist 'democracy' more than anything. I am using the term Democracy, loosely here. North Korea for example tend to boast that they're democratic in their name but really they're not and they have only one candidate haha. You see where I am going with this? Still a bit of a dictatorship to me. Whilst the constitution is still being written, I do hope the need for political parties is just NOT an earthly thing, personally expect a lot of discontent amongst asgardians. Hardly trying to gather 'Unity' if you're going to restrict political parties in Asgardia. I would actively encourage all members of Asgardia to oppose this 9th notion or reword it because to me it appears to be quite vague

Thank you, regards Christopher J Boardman

  Last edited by:  Christopher Boardman (Asgardian, Candidate)  on Mar 30, 17 / Tau 05, 01 04:00 UTC, Total number of edits: 1 time
Reason: typo error